Iztiraab - Nazm

[Amit Malhotra]

mehfil-e-ALUP ko mera namaskaar,

meri pichhli ghazal yahaaN se chup-chaap sar jhukaaye hue nikal gayi :)
to maiN ne socha k shaayad meri halki-phulki shaayari pe aap log kuchh
bhi kahne se katraate haiN. aji, agar aur kuchh nahiiN to itna hi
sahii.. k bhai Amit miyaaN, apne kalaam meiN kuchh afkaar le aao :-P
:-)

ba-har-haal, ek taaza nazm le kar haazir hua houN, aap sab se guzaarish
hai k tanqeed-o-tabsira karne se na ghabraayeiN, agar kisii kaam ki
nahiiN hai, to itna hi bataa dijiyega, aur agar kahiiN ghalti rah gayi
hai to us par bhi ishaara kar dijiyega taki maiN use durust kar louN.

unvaan hai:

Iztiraab

aaj phir raat tirii yaad se bojhal guzri
aaj phir chaaNd mire haal pe Ghamgeen rahaa
aaj phir dard kii shiddat ne mujhe toR diyaa
aaj phir shabnamii aankhoN ne tirii raah takii

mere anfaas meiN ab tak tirii Khushboo hai nihaaN
mere seene meiN abhi tak tiri dhaRkan hai javaaN
mere jazbaat ke sho'oloN meiN haraarat hai tirii
vuhii vahshat, vuhii ulfat, vuhii chaahat hai tirii

mere ash'aar ki duniyaa hai tujhii se mansoob
meri nazmoN meiN chhupaa Gham bhi faqat teraa hai
tuu abhii tak hai mirii rooh kii pahnaaii meiN
mere ehsaas meiN, takh'eel kii raanaaii meiN

aaj phir chaaNd mire haal pe Ghamgeen rahaa
aaj phir dil ne kaii baar sawaalaat kiye
aaj phir maiN ne kaii baar ise samjhaayaa
"jiski ulfat pe tujhe itnaa yaqeeN thaa, naadaaN!
vo kisii khwaab meiN khoyii huii hogii shaayad
vo kahiiN chain se soyii huii hogii shaayad!"

=======
aap sab ki aara ka muntazar,

Amit Malhotra 'tanhaa'

[Sarwar A. Raz]

Post by Amit Malhotra
mehfil-e-ALUP ko mera namaskaar,
meri pichhli ghazal yahaaN se chup-chaap sar jhukaaye hue nikal gayi :)
to maiN ne socha k shaayad meri halki-phulki shaayari pe aap log kuchh
bhi kahne se katraate haiN. aji, agar aur kuchh nahiiN to itna hi
sahii.. k bhai Amit miyaaN, apne kalaam meiN kuchh afkaar le aao :-P
:-)
ba-har-haal, ek taaza nazm le kar haazir hua houN, aap sab se guzaarish
hai k tanqeed-o-tabsira karne se na ghabraayeiN, agar kisii kaam ki
nahiiN hai, to itna hi bataa dijiyega, aur agar kahiiN ghalti rah gayi
hai to us par bhi ishaara kar dijiyega taki maiN use durust kar louN.
Iztiraab
aaj phir raat tirii yaad se bojhal guzri
aaj phir chaaNd mire haal pe Ghamgeen rahaa
aaj phir dard kii shiddat ne mujhe toR diyaa
aaj phir shabnamii aankhoN ne tirii raah takii
mere anfaas meiN ab tak tirii Khushboo hai nihaaN
mere seene meiN abhi tak tiri dhaRkan hai javaaN
mere jazbaat ke sho'oloN meiN haraarat hai tirii
vuhii vahshat, vuhii ulfat, vuhii chaahat hai tirii
mere ash'aar ki duniyaa hai tujhii se mansoob
meri nazmoN meiN chhupaa Gham bhi faqat teraa hai
tuu abhii tak hai mirii rooh kii pahnaaii meiN
mere ehsaas meiN, takh'eel kii raanaaii meiN
aaj phir chaaNd mire haal pe Ghamgeen rahaa
aaj phir dil ne kaii baar sawaalaat kiye
aaj phir maiN ne kaii baar ise samjhaayaa
"jiski ulfat pe tujhe itnaa yaqeeN thaa, naadaaN!
vo kisii khwaab meiN khoyii huii hogii shaayad
vo kahiiN chain se soyii huii hogii shaayad!"
=======
aap sab ki aara ka muntazar,
Amit Malhotra 'tanhaa'

-------------------------------------------------------
Amit SaaHeb: namaste!

mujh` ko baRaa afsos hai-----is baat kaa keh is se pehle maiN ne yeh
naz^m kyoN naheeN dekh`ee! waah waah! jaZbaat aur un kaa itnaa seedh`aa
lekin acar-angez iz^haar! mujh` ko is kaa zer-o-bam (rhythm) bh`ee
bohat achh`aa lagaa. meree dilee daad qubool keejiYe. Sirf ek baat hai:
agar aap sab bandoN (stanzas) ko usee t^araH :muqaffaa: (ya'nee
qaafiyoN kaa paaband) kar deN jaise doosraa band hai to naz^m kaa Husan
dobaalaa ho jaaYe gaa. kam se kam is jaanib socheN Z^aroor!

Sarwar A. Raz "Sarwar"

[Amit Malhotra]

Post by Sarwar A. Raz
-------------------------------------------------------
Amit SaaHeb: namaste!
mujh` ko baRaa afsos hai-----is baat kaa keh is se pehle maiN ne yeh
naz^m kyoN naheeN dekh`ee! waah waah! jaZbaat aur un kaa itnaa seedh`aa
lekin acar-angez iz^haar! mujh` ko is kaa zer-o-bam (rhythm) bh`ee
agar aap sab bandoN (stanzas) ko usee t^araH :muqaffaa: (ya'nee
qaafiyoN kaa paaband) kar deN jaise doosraa band hai to naz^m kaa Husan
dobaalaa ho jaaYe gaa. kam se kam is jaanib socheN Z^aroor!
Sarwar A. Raz "Sarwar"

Sarwar sahib,

aapko yahaaN dekh kar be-intehaa khushi hui hai. aur aapne meri nazm ki
jis tarah se pazeeraaii kii hai.. bahut bahut shukriya. jahaaN tak har
baNd ko muqaffa karne ki baat hai, mujhe to lagtaa nahiiN k is nazm ko
maiN yuuN kar paaouNgaa, magar maiN apni har agli nazm meiN aisa karne
ki zaroor koshish karouNga. aur is par bhi mazeed sochouNga k agar ye
kaam ho sakta hai k nahiiN.

mujhe ummeed hai aap mere kalaam par apni raaye dete raheiNge aur
tabsira karne se haath peechhe nahiiN khiiNcheiNge. aap ke tabsire se
bahut kuchh seekhne ko milta hai.

shukriya Sarwar sahib,


Amit Malhotra 'tanhaa'

[Naseer]

Amit Sahib, aadaab-o-tasliimaat!

I would like to add my appreciation following Sarwar Sahib's post. Just
a couple of points..


"mere anfaas meiN ab tak tirii Khushboo hai nihaaN"

I would have liked to see " merii saaNsoN meN...." instead of "mere
anfaas...". Secondly..

"mere ehsaas meiN, takh'eel kii raanaaii meiN"..

I could n't make out the word "takh'eel". Is it "taKHayyul"?

KHair-andesh,
Naseer

[UVR]

Post by Naseer
Amit Sahib, aadaab-o-tasliimaat!
I would like to add my appreciation following Sarwar Sahib's post. Just
a couple of points..
"mere anfaas meiN ab tak tirii Khushboo hai nihaaN"
I would have liked to see " merii saaNsoN meN...." instead of "mere
anfaas...". Secondly..
"mere ehsaas meiN, takh'eel kii raanaaii meiN"..
I could n't make out the word "takh'eel". Is it "taKHayyul"?
KHair-andesh,
Naseer

Naseer saahib,

The word *is* takh'eel (or, perhaps, taKhyeel, depending). It's
from Arabic, as far as I know, and means "fanciful imagination".
I have a strong feeling it is related to taKhayyul -- but I can't say
for sure as I am not familiar with the rules of word construction
and/or derivation in Arabic.

-UVR.

[Amit Malhotra]

Post by Naseer
Amit Sahib, aadaab-o-tasliimaat!
I would like to add my appreciation following Sarwar Sahib's post. Just
a couple of points..

Shukriya Naseer sahib.... your appreciation is appreciated.

Post by Naseer
"mere anfaas meiN ab tak tirii Khushboo hai nihaaN"
I would have liked to see " merii saaNsoN meN...." instead of "mere
anfaas...". Secondly..

for some reason, the word "saaNsoN" didn't even come in my mind when I
was writing, "anfaas" came pretty naturally. You do make a good point
though... I like "saaNsoN" too... I usually prefer simpler words when
it comes to writing my poems and seldom take refuge in more complicated
words. But I guess metrically, anfaas is just a fit there.

Post by Naseer
"mere ehsaas meiN, takh'eel kii raanaaii meiN"..
I could n't make out the word "takh'eel". Is it "taKHayyul"?
KHair-andesh,
Naseer

ji as UVR sahib said, it's takh'eel or takhyeel, however you want to
transliterate it. It does mean imagination.

Regards,


Amit Malhotra 'tanhaa'

[UVR]

Post by Amit Malhotra

Post by Naseer
"mere anfaas meiN ab tak tirii Khushboo hai nihaaN"
I would have liked to see " merii saaNsoN meN...." instead of "mere
anfaas...". Secondly..

for some reason, the word "saaNsoN" didn't even come in my mind when I
was writing, "anfaas" came pretty naturally. You do make a good point
though... I like "saaNsoN" too... I usually prefer simpler words when
it comes to writing my poems and seldom take refuge in more complicated
words. But I guess metrically, anfaas is just a fit there.

I'm not sure whether Naseer saahib is satisfied with your answer,
but your mention of your preference for "simpler words" made me
recall the question that popped into my mind when I read your
nazm the first time -- why did you not use "merii har saaNs meN"
instead of "mere anfaas meN"?

-UVR.

[Amit Malhotra]

Post by UVR
I'm not sure whether Naseer saahib is satisfied with your answer,
but your mention of your preference for "simpler words" made me
recall the question that popped into my mind when I read your
nazm the first time -- why did you not use "merii har saaNs meN"
instead of "mere anfaas meN"?
-UVR.

UVR sahib,

quite honestly, I have no clue whey I didn't use "merii har saaNs meiN"
and I wrote what came to my mind, incidently, it was the word "anfaas"
and I was quite satisfied at how the misra turned out to be.

and now that you have mentionned "meri har saaNs meiN", if you don't
mind, I would really like to change my misra and take this as a
tajveez... if you don't mind that is.

I don't know if you have noticed, my preference for simpler words is
quite obvious from what I write.

Thanks and Regards,

Amit Malhotra

[UVR]

Post by Amit Malhotra

Post by UVR
I'm not sure whether Naseer saahib is satisfied with your answer,
but your mention of your preference for "simpler words" made me
recall the question that popped into my mind when I read your
nazm the first time -- why did you not use "merii har saaNs meN"
instead of "mere anfaas meN"?
-UVR.

UVR sahib,
quite honestly, I have no clue whey I didn't use "merii har saaNs meiN"
and I wrote what came to my mind, incidently, it was the word "anfaas"
and I was quite satisfied at how the misra turned out to be.
and now that you have mentionned "meri har saaNs meiN", if you don't
mind, I would really like to change my misra and take this as a
tajveez... if you don't mind that is.

There is no question of minding. Be my guest. :) I am
happy to know that you liked my suggestion.

I would also like to suggest that you treat Sarwar saahib's
recommendation seriously and attempt to make all the
"stanzas" of your poem possess a rhyming pattern similar
to that of the first band. For example, you may wish to
consider using a word like mahboob, marGhoob or, say,
matloob to end the second line of the 2nd band. Likewise,
it may be possible to do what Sarwar saahib calls "alfaaz
kaa pher-badal" to change the words used in the 3rd
stanza and inject the same pattern into it. Might make
the whole thing a little more attractive, if you know what
I mean.

-UVR.

[Amit Malhotra]

Post by UVR

Post by Amit Malhotra
UVR sahib,
quite honestly, I have no clue whey I didn't use "merii har saaNs meiN"
and I wrote what came to my mind, incidently, it was the word "anfaas"
and I was quite satisfied at how the misra turned out to be.
and now that you have mentionned "meri har saaNs meiN", if you don't
mind, I would really like to change my misra and take this as a
tajveez... if you don't mind that is.

There is no question of minding. Be my guest. :) I am
happy to know that you liked my suggestion.

I have made the change in my poem. Thank you for giving me that
suggestion, Now I really prefer the misra in this form than the one I
had written in it.

Post by UVR
I would also like to suggest that you treat Sarwar saahib's
recommendation seriously and attempt to make all the
"stanzas" of your poem possess a rhyming pattern similar
to that of the first band. For example, you may wish to
consider using a word like mahboob, marGhoob or, say,
matloob to end the second line of the 2nd band. Likewise,
it may be possible to do what Sarwar saahib calls "alfaaz
kaa pher-badal" to change the words used in the 3rd
stanza and inject the same pattern into it. Might make
the whole thing a little more attractive, if you know what
I mean.

I understand that Sarwar Sahib's recommendation is excellent... and I
know I should pay more attention to it. I just feel that the soul this
poem has at this point may change if I started playing around with it
further. Unless it was technically wrong, I feel very reluctant to
changing it. I had also written a few more nazms that I haven't posted
anywhere and they are also more aazaad with regards to the rhyming
pattern. But in future, whatever I write, I'll make sure that I try to
give it a proper rhyming pattern. That doesnt mean I wont try, I'll
try to see if I actually can make changes to make a stable rhyming
pattern everywhere. I know the charm of it, most poems that touch your
heart, I have noticed, always have stable rhyming patterns. I thank
you for giving me your thoughts on that as well.

Once again, thank you for your suggestion and your thoughts. I really
appreciate your presence here :)

Regards,

tanhaa sahaaranpuri :D

[Naseer]

janaab-i-Amit Sahib and janaab-i-UVR Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai!

Thank you for clarifying the word "takh'eel". It is, as UVR has
indicated, spelt "taKHyiil" and this is the meaning according to the
following dictionaries.

The Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic 4th edition

fantastic deception,sham; play acting


A Comprehensive Persian-English Sictionary R.Steingass

Making one suppose or fancy; deceiving; pretending to, practicing
deception.


"taKHayyul" in the former is imagination, phantasy; delusion,
hallucination, fancy, whim, fantastic notion. In the latter..Passing
before the mind; imagining, fancying; imagination, fancy; hope


KHair-andesh,
Naseer

[Amit Malhotra]

Post by Naseer
janaab-i-Amit Sahib and janaab-i-UVR Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai!
Thank you for clarifying the word "takh'eel". It is, as UVR has
indicated, spelt "taKHyiil" and this is the meaning according to the
following dictionaries.
The Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic 4th edition
fantastic deception,sham; play acting
A Comprehensive Persian-English Sictionary R.Steingass
Making one suppose or fancy; deceiving; pretending to, practicing
deception.
"taKHayyul" in the former is imagination, phantasy; delusion,
hallucination, fancy, whim, fantastic notion. In the latter..Passing
before the mind; imagining, fancying; imagination, fancy; hope
KHair-andesh,
Naseer

Naseer sahib,

thank you for the comprehensive meanings of the word takh'eel. I
believe it's written with a hamza in Urdu and that's why I put the
apostrophe in the middle of takh and eel. Regardless, transliteration
is something that we can always discuss and agree to not agree on.

Regards,

Amit Malhotra 'tanhaa'

[Naseer]

Post by Amit Malhotra
Naseer sahib,
thank you for the comprehensive meanings of the word takh'eel. I
believe it's written with a hamza in Urdu and that's why I put the
apostrophe in the middle of takh and eel. Regardless, transliteration
is something that we can always discuss and agree to not agree on.

janaab-i-Amit Malhotra Sahib, aadaab!

My Urdu/English dictionary does not have "taKHyiil", but I would say
that the word is not with a hamza. Another word in the same "vazn" is
"tamyiiz", but this is normally pronounced as "tamiiz" in Urdu.

Naseer

[Vijay]

Amit sahib, aap kii naz'm aaj paRhii. bhaii bohat Khoob! maza aa gaya.
picchle do aik hafte meN jo dekhne men aaya hai, us se mujhe to aisa
lagta hai ki aap nazmeN ghazaloN kii nisbatan behtar kehte haiN:-) aise
hii likhte reaheN aur yahaaN hameN sunaate raheN. shukriia!

Vijay

Post by Amit Malhotra
mehfil-e-ALUP ko mera namaskaar,
meri pichhli ghazal yahaaN se chup-chaap sar jhukaaye hue nikal gayi :)
to maiN ne socha k shaayad meri halki-phulki shaayari pe aap log kuchh
bhi kahne se katraate haiN. aji, agar aur kuchh nahiiN to itna hi
sahii.. k bhai Amit miyaaN, apne kalaam meiN kuchh afkaar le aao :-P
:-)
ba-har-haal, ek taaza nazm le kar haazir hua houN, aap sab se guzaarish
hai k tanqeed-o-tabsira karne se na ghabraayeiN, agar kisii kaam ki
nahiiN hai, to itna hi bataa dijiyega, aur agar kahiiN ghalti rah gayi
hai to us par bhi ishaara kar dijiyega taki maiN use durust kar louN.
Iztiraab
aaj phir raat tirii yaad se bojhal guzri
aaj phir chaaNd mire haal pe Ghamgeen rahaa
aaj phir dard kii shiddat ne mujhe toR diyaa
aaj phir shabnamii aankhoN ne tirii raah takii
mere anfaas meiN ab tak tirii Khushboo hai nihaaN
mere seene meiN abhi tak tiri dhaRkan hai javaaN
mere jazbaat ke sho'oloN meiN haraarat hai tirii
vuhii vahshat, vuhii ulfat, vuhii chaahat hai tirii
mere ash'aar ki duniyaa hai tujhii se mansoob
meri nazmoN meiN chhupaa Gham bhi faqat teraa hai
tuu abhii tak hai mirii rooh kii pahnaaii meiN
mere ehsaas meiN, takh'eel kii raanaaii meiN
aaj phir chaaNd mire haal pe Ghamgeen rahaa
aaj phir dil ne kaii baar sawaalaat kiye
aaj phir maiN ne kaii baar ise samjhaayaa
"jiski ulfat pe tujhe itnaa yaqeeN thaa, naadaaN!
vo kisii khwaab meiN khoyii huii hogii shaayad
vo kahiiN chain se soyii huii hogii shaayad!"
=======
aap sab ki aara ka muntazar,
Amit Malhotra 'tanhaa'

[Amit Malhotra]

Post by Vijay
Amit sahib, aap kii naz'm aaj paRhii. bhaii bohat Khoob! maza aa gaya.
picchle do aik hafte meN jo dekhne men aaya hai, us se mujhe to aisa
lagta hai ki aap nazmeN ghazaloN kii nisbatan behtar kehte haiN:-) aise
hii likhte reaheN aur yahaaN hameN sunaate raheN. shukriia!
Vijay

Vijay sahib,

daad ka bahut shukriya. mujhe jaan kar Khushi hui k aap ko nazm pasand
aayii. jahaaN tak mera nazmeiN ghazloN se behtar likhne ki baat hai, to
bhai mujhe to abhi kuchh bhi likhna nahiiN aataa! ghazleiN hoN ya
nazmeiN! vaise nazmeiN likhna mujhe zyada aasaan lagaa, aur vaise bhi
pichhli ghazal (aapne zaroor meri pahli ghazleiN jo k ALUP ki archives
meiN haiN, paRhii nahiiN haiN) meri usual ghazloN ke muqaabile bahut
halki phulki thi. ye disclaimer to maiN ne use yahaaN post karne se
pahle hi de diyaa tha :) aur uska bhi ek qissa hai... qareeb do saal
baad qalam phir se uThaayii to jo pahli ghazal bani, vo to halki si
ghazal hi honi thi na? abhi to maiN ghazal-goii meiN ek bachchaa houN
yahaaN pe maujood stalwarts ke muqaabile meiN. :)

chaleiN, ye sab chhoReiN, aap ki daad sar aaNkhoN par janaab, ummeed
hai yuuN hi mere kalaam par nazar-e-karam rakheiNge.

aadaab

Amit Malhotra
shukriya

[Brijinder]

Hi Amit,
Wah! dhairoN daad meri taraf say qabool kijiyay.This is the
kind of poetry I look for but sadly find at so few places.Most People
are more concerned with the mathematical "jor-tor"than the intensity of
thought.Or with the grammatical things.Poetry is much beyond that,it
some times crates its own idioms,its own grammar n yet is a wonderful
pice of ART.
Really my kind of poetry.Keep it up.
Brijinder"Sagar"

Post by Amit Malhotra
mehfil-e-ALUP ko mera namaskaar,
meri pichhli ghazal yahaaN se chup-chaap sar jhukaaye hue nikal gayi :)
to maiN ne socha k shaayad meri halki-phulki shaayari pe aap log kuchh
bhi kahne se katraate haiN. aji, agar aur kuchh nahiiN to itna hi
sahii.. k bhai Amit miyaaN, apne kalaam meiN kuchh afkaar le aao :-P
:-)
ba-har-haal, ek taaza nazm le kar haazir hua houN, aap sab se guzaarish
hai k tanqeed-o-tabsira karne se na ghabraayeiN, agar kisii kaam ki
nahiiN hai, to itna hi bataa dijiyega, aur agar kahiiN ghalti rah gayi
hai to us par bhi ishaara kar dijiyega taki maiN use durust kar louN.
Iztiraab
aaj phir raat tirii yaad se bojhal guzri
aaj phir chaaNd mire haal pe Ghamgeen rahaa
aaj phir dard kii shiddat ne mujhe toR diyaa
aaj phir shabnamii aankhoN ne tirii raah takii
mere anfaas meiN ab tak tirii Khushboo hai nihaaN
mere seene meiN abhi tak tiri dhaRkan hai javaaN
mere jazbaat ke sho'oloN meiN haraarat hai tirii
vuhii vahshat, vuhii ulfat, vuhii chaahat hai tirii
mere ash'aar ki duniyaa hai tujhii se mansoob
meri nazmoN meiN chhupaa Gham bhi faqat teraa hai
tuu abhii tak hai mirii rooh kii pahnaaii meiN
mere ehsaas meiN, takh'eel kii raanaaii meiN
aaj phir chaaNd mire haal pe Ghamgeen rahaa
aaj phir dil ne kaii baar sawaalaat kiye
aaj phir maiN ne kaii baar ise samjhaayaa
"jiski ulfat pe tujhe itnaa yaqeeN thaa, naadaaN!
vo kisii khwaab meiN khoyii huii hogii shaayad
vo kahiiN chain se soyii huii hogii shaayad!"
=======
aap sab ki aara ka muntazar,
Amit Malhotra 'tanhaa'

[Naseer]

Post by Brijinder
Hi Amit,
Wah! dhairoN daad meri taraf say qabool kijiyay.This is the
kind of poetry I look for but sadly find at so few places.Most People
are more concerned with the mathematical "jor-tor"than the intensity of
thought.Or with the grammatical things.Poetry is much beyond that,it
some times crates its own idioms,its own grammar n yet is a wonderful
pice of ART.
Really my kind of poetry.Keep it up.
Brijinder"Sagar"

Brijinder bhaaii, aadaab 'arz hai!

My feeling is that anyone is free to write in whatever way or form they
wish to write! Also, no one doubts the writer's "intensity" of thought
but I do feel the way the medium is used is important.

You are, no doubt, a lover of Urdu poetry. Otherwise you would n't be
composing and publishing poetry in this language. You must, more than
likely, also have one or two favourite Urdu poets or a number of
"pasandiidah" Ghazals and nazms. You look at any of these poets and
their "produce", you will not find one who does not use "joR-toR" ( I
assume you mean baHr, vazn, qaafiyah etc). Nor will you find anyone in
whose poetry one can find grammatical errors. The point I am making is
that they do follow certain criteria of language and prosody.

Even in what is termed as "aazaad" nazm, you will find rhythm and
rhyme. Not too long ago, I posted a nazm by "Miiraa Jii" called "kalark
kaa naGhma-i-muHabbat". Please have a look at this poem and you'll
find the intensity of thought and feeling, rhyme and rhythm and correct
grammar and idiom. It is an "aazaad" nazm. If you can get hold of
"Anwar Mas'uud" 's "melaa akhiyaaN daa" in gurmukhii script, please
read his poetry, both aazaad and paaband. You will find things in there
which will "blow your mind"!

I can perhaps do no better than to draw an analogy with food and music.
If you got the recipe to make "biryaanii", you would n't throw in the
ingredients in a random manner and leave it to cook till the cows come
home! of course not. You will add the ingredients, in suitable
proportions, at the right time so that the biryaanii does not end up as
"khichRii". If you and I bought a sitaar and a tabla and without any
formal training and knowledge about the intricacies of music, could we
ever aim to become Ravi ShaNkar and Allah Rakhaa?

I believe Sarwar Sahib has made certain suggestions, relevant to this
topic, to Amit Sahib which were supported by UVR Sahib. Please take a
look at earlier posts by these gentlemen. I believe Amit Sahib was in
agreement with both.

Please do not take my comments in a negative way. I love the language
and it's poetry without having depth of knowledge. I am sure others
would have similar views about poetry.

KHair-KHwah,
Naseer

[Amit Malhotra]

Post by Brijinder
Hi Amit,
Wah! dhairoN daad meri taraf say qabool kijiyay.This is the
kind of poetry I look for but sadly find at so few places.Most People
are more concerned with the mathematical "jor-tor"than the intensity of
thought.Or with the grammatical things.Poetry is much beyond that,it
some times crates its own idioms,its own grammar n yet is a wonderful
pice of ART.
Really my kind of poetry.Keep it up.
Brijinder"Sagar"

Brijinder sahib,

bahut shukriya jo aapne meri is nazm par apni pasand ka izhaar kiyaa.
aapki daad sar aaNkhoN par.

maiN bhi aapke baaqi ke comments par kuchh kahnaa chaahta tha, magar
Naseer sahib mujhse kai behtar kah gaye magar chaNd aur baateiN sahii?

aap ne jis mathematical "joR-toR" ki baat ki hai, mujhe bhi lagtaa hai
k aap behr, ya vazn ki hi baat kar rahe haiN. aapne shaayad mehsoos
nahin kiya hoga, meri ye nazm behr meiN hai. is behr ka naam (jahaaN
tak mera khayaal hai):
ramal musamman maKhboon mahzoof maqtoo hai.
ab aap kaheiNge, naam se kya lena? to iska mathematical distribution
hai:
2122 1122 1122 22

aap ne shaayad iske andar ek chhupi hui rhythm mahsoos ki hogi, vo is
be'hr ki hi den hai aur is mathematical distribution ki vajah se hi
aayii hai. agar maiN is nazm ko behr meiN na likhta to mere liye
ismeiN ye rhythm laana bahut mushkil hota. mujhe nasm ke baare meiN
itni jaankaari nahiiN hai aur un meiN jo rhythm hoti hai, uske baare
meiN to bilkul bhi nahiiN pata!

mujhe ek baar kisi ne kahaa thaa (jo baat maiN kabhii bhoola nahiiN):
Amit sahib, ehsaas aur jazbaat aur khayaal to har ek meiN hote haiN,
magar har koi unka izhaar nahiiN kar paataa hai jis tarah se ek shaayar
ko karna chaahiye.

and you have to use the proper language, otherwise, there is no charm
in poetry! Like Naseer sahib said, u really can't make a masterpiece
without having the right ingredients and the right way to mix them.

on the rhyming part. I did use more liberal form of rhyming patterns
here where some of my lines didn't rhyme at all.... but in aazaad nazm,
that is still allowed from what I understand .... but aazaad nazm just
can't be out of meter, it has to respect the meter.

Anyway, enough said, Naseer sahib really explained it much better, I
just wanted to add my two cents.

And once again, thank you very much for your praise on my nazm.

Regards,


Amit Malhotra 'tanhaa'

[Vijay]

Post by Brijinder
Hi Amit,
Wah! dhairoN daad meri taraf say qabool kijiyay.This is the
kind of poetry I look for but sadly find at so few places.Most People
are more concerned with the mathematical "jor-tor"than the intensity of
thought.Or with the grammatical things.Poetry is much beyond that,it
some times crates its own idioms,its own grammar n yet is a wonderful
pice of ART.
Really my kind of poetry.Keep it up.
Brijinder"Sagar"

Brijinder Sahib:

I am here essentially to support whar Naseer sahib has posted. He has
made the point more eloquently than I could attempt. I may be
reiterating some of what he has said.

To me, any form of poetry, azaad or paabaNd, has to have poetic rhyme,
rhythm and flow. It has to follow correct rules of grammer of the
langugae. I agree with you that all Urdu poetry is not 'ghazal' which
has very strict rules of qafia, radiif, meter etc. But even in a Naz'm,
the flow and the rhythmic pattern has to be maintianed so that when one
tries to recite it ,teht-ul-lafz, or sing it, it shoud have the
necessary 'mausiiqiiat'. Look at the following example by Gulzar (the
first few lines):

saaNs lena bhii kaisii aadat hai
jiie jaana bhii kya rivaayat hai
koii aahaT nahiiN badan meN kahiiN
koii saaya nahiiN hai aaNkhoN men
paaoN behis haiN, chalte jaate haiN
ik safar hai, kaTta rehta hai

Would you agree that it has a rhythm and flow that is obvious when one
reads and recites it? Even though it doesn't seem to 'rhyme'?

Here is a short Punjabi mizaahia naz'm by Anwar Masood (the poet Naseer
Sahib has mentioned) which seems all over the place but its inherent
flow, rhythm and poetic structure is so obvious:

Taahlii hethaaN milne daa
va'ada os kiita sii
Tahhlii jithe dassi saa' suu
othe te khajoor ai
aidhey wich dasso
hun mera kii qasoor ai

Sahir's famous long naz'm ParchhaayiaaN, changes gears a few times
where the rhythm goes from longer 'behr' to a shorter one. It goes
from:

javaan raat ke siine pe doodhiia aaNchal
machal raha hai kisii Khwaab-e-marmariiN kii tarah

to

voh lamhe kitne dilkash the
voh ghaRiiaaN kitnii pyaari thiiN

without breaking a swaet. And in so doing adds to the beauty and
'mausiiqiiat' of the poem.

In conclusion, then, I guess what I am really trying to say is that if
'aazaad' in azaad naz'm means freedom from rules of rhythm, flow,
grammer, language, then, at least in my humble opinion, it ceases to be
'poetic' and becomes 'prosaic', both literally and metaphorically!

With warm regards,

Vijay Kumar

[Zoya]

Amit,

vaise to maiN aap ko is Khuub suurat nazm par pehle hii dilii aur
be_saaKhta daad de chukii huuN, ek baar phir merii jaanib se daad aur
mubaarak baad qubuul kiijiye!

likhte rahiiye! maiN almost 'Khush rahiiye' bhii keh gayii thii, magar
phir yeh soch kar ruk gayii k shaayad yeh donoN duaeN 'mutually
compatible' na hoN!! ;) :)

Naseer Sahib,

jaisa k Vijay Sahib ne bhi kahaa, you have expressed your views, which
are totally fair in my opinion, very nicely. Thank you.

________Zoya

[Amit Malhotra]

Post by Zoya
Amit,
vaise to maiN aap ko is Khuub suurat nazm par pehle hii dilii aur
be_saaKhta daad de chukii huuN, ek baar phir merii jaanib se daad aur
mubaarak baad qubuul kiijiye!

Shukriya Zoya ji, aap ne phir se daad di is nazm par, mujhe vaaqii
bahut khushi hui hai aur bahut hausla-afzaaii bhi.

Post by Zoya
likhte rahiiye! maiN almost 'Khush rahiiye' bhii keh gayii thii, magar
phir yeh soch kar ruk gayii k shaayad yeh donoN duaeN 'mutually
compatible' na hoN!! ;) :)

haha! likhte raheiNge, aur likh kar bhi kaafi khushi hoti hai k chalo,
kaaGhaza par alfaaz ki shakl meiN kuchh ehsaas to qaid ho gaye....

you are most kind Zoya ji,


Sat-Sri-Akal :)

Amit Malhotra