Discussion:
aisi tasveer kis ne banaa'ii?
(too old to reply)
Raj Kumar
2007-09-25 22:57:45 UTC
Permalink
yaaraan-e-mehfil:

aaj, anjaane meiN, ;) azeez-e-man janaab-e-Zafar saahib ne Khaaksaar
ke majmoo'a-e-kalaam par jo tabsira raqam kiyaa tha, us ki naql aap
sabhi dostoN tak aa pahuNchii hai --- chooN-k unhoN ne mere aek she'r
ka Khusoosi taur se zikr kiyaa hai aur farmaaya hai k yeh vaahid she'r
tha jis ne un ki tavajjo'h mere kalaam ki jaanib pheri thi
------------------- maiN be-had Khush hooN k Zafar saahib ne,
majmoo'ii taur par, mere majmoo'a-e-kalaam par na sirf aek taab-naak
tabsira raqam kiyaa hai bal-k is majmoo'e ke mahaasin par aek
baasiraana nazar bhi Daali hai!
Thanks, Zaf ji!

albatta, aek baat hai --- voh yeh k Zafar saahib ne mere Khusoosi
she'r ke doosre misre ko saheeh naheeN likkhaa:

ba-qaul un ke

yeh Khuda ke bhii bas kii nahiiN thii
aisii tasviir hai kis ne banaaii

jab-k is she'r ki saheeh soorat yooN hai:

yeh Khudaa ke bhi bas kii nahiiN thii
aisii tasviir kis ne banaaii -------- with no 'hai' in it!

ba-har-haal, maiN ne socha k kyooN na maiN voh poori ki pooori Ghazal
ahaaliyaan-e-ALUP ko sunaata chalooN jis Ghazal meiN yeh Khusoosi
she'r dar-aamad hu'aa tha!

to, leejiye, voh poori ki poori Ghazal aap sabhoN ki Khidmat meiN
haazir hai--- gar qubool uftad!

---------------

matl'a arz hai k

mere lab par tirii baat aa'ii
phool mehke, kalii muskuraa'ii

tera aanaa, miraa chauNk jaanaa
voh ghaRii umr bhar yaad aa'ii

teri aavaaz kaa le ke jaadoo
Khaamushii raat bhar gungunaa'ii

saarii dunyaa pareshaan kyooN hai?
ham ne pii jab kisii ne pilaa'ii!

jaane, kis ne hilaayaa tha shaana?
aaj tak na hameN neeNd aa'ii

ko'i aayaa hai zulfeN bikhere
mere maulaa, duhaa'ii duhaa'ii!

voh sanam hai, Khudaa to naheeN hai
phir bhi martii hai saarii Khudaa'ii

yeh sar-aa-paa, yeh husn-e-tanaasub
kis musavvir ki hai yeh ghaRaa'ii?

yeh Khudaa ke bhi bas kii naheeN thii
aisii tasveer kis ne banaa'ii?

aur ab maqt'a haazir hai:

taaknaa-jhaaNknaa har kisii ko
Qais meiN thii yihii ik buraa'ii :(

------------------

R.K.
Kali Hawa
2007-09-26 10:41:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raj Kumar
voh sanam hai, Khudaa to naheeN hai
phir bhi martii hai saarii Khudaa'ii
In some streams of philosophy Sanam is Khuda or Khuda is Sanam and
ultimate consumation of this love is climax of life. The rejection of
"woh sanam hai, khuda to nahi" is actually rejected in "phir be marti
hai...." The contradiction creates magic in this sh'er

Kali Hawa
Raj Kumar
2007-09-26 23:24:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kali Hawa
Post by Raj Kumar
voh sanam hai, Khudaa to naheeN hai
phir bhi martii hai saarii Khudaa'ii
In some streams of philosophy Sanam is Khuda or Khuda is Sanam and
ultimate consumation of this love is climax of life. The rejection of
"woh sanam hai, khuda to nahi" is actually rejected in "phir be marti
hai...." The contradiction creates magic in this sh'er
A nice observation, KH saahib, and an equally nice inference! :)

bahut bahut shukriya,
Raj Kumar
Zafar
2007-09-27 20:35:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raj Kumar
aaj, anjaane meiN, ;) azeez-e-man janaab-e-Zafar saahib ne Khaaksaar
ke majmoo'a-e-kalaam par jo tabsira raqam kiyaa tha, us ki naql aap
sabhi dostoN tak aa pahuNchii hai --- chooN-k unhoN ne mere aek she'r
ka Khusoosi taur se zikr kiyaa hai aur farmaaya hai k yeh vaahid she'r
tha jis ne un ki tavajjo'h mere kalaam ki jaanib pheri thi
------------------- maiN be-had Khush hooN k Zafar saahib ne,
majmoo'ii taur par, mere majmoo'a-e-kalaam par na sirf aek taab-naak
tabsira raqam kiyaa hai bal-k is majmoo'e ke mahaasin par aek
baasiraana nazar bhi Daali hai!
Thanks, Zaf ji!
albatta, aek baat hai --- voh yeh k Zafar saahib ne mere Khusoosi
ba-qaul un ke
yeh Khuda ke bhii bas kii nahiiN thii
aisii tasviir hai kis ne banaaii
yeh Khudaa ke bhi bas kii nahiiN thii
aisii tasviir kis ne banaaii -------- with no 'hai' in it!
janaab Rajkumar saahib:

she'r ki tas'heeh aur naacheez tabsira pasand karne kaa shukriya.
maiN to thoRaa tazabzub kaa shikaar thaa k kaheeN us mehfil meN
tabsire ki koyi baat aap ko naagavaar na guzri ho!

us din aap se khul ke mulaaqaat na ho paa'yi, jis kaa qalaq rahe gaa.
Khair, yaad zinda, suhbat baaqi.

aadaab arz hai,

Zafar
Post by Raj Kumar
ba-har-haal, maiN ne socha k kyooN na maiN voh poori ki pooori Ghazal
ahaaliyaan-e-ALUP ko sunaata chalooN jis Ghazal meiN yeh Khusoosi
she'r dar-aamad hu'aa tha!
to, leejiye, voh poori ki poori Ghazal aap sabhoN ki Khidmat meiN
haazir hai--- gar qubool uftad!
---------------
matl'a arz hai k
mere lab par tirii baat aa'ii
phool mehke, kalii muskuraa'ii
tera aanaa, miraa chauNk jaanaa
voh ghaRii umr bhar yaad aa'ii
teri aavaaz kaa le ke jaadoo
Khaamushii raat bhar gungunaa'ii
saarii dunyaa pareshaan kyooN hai?
ham ne pii jab kisii ne pilaa'ii!
jaane, kis ne hilaayaa tha shaana?
aaj tak na hameN neeNd aa'ii
ko'i aayaa hai zulfeN bikhere
mere maulaa, duhaa'ii duhaa'ii!
voh sanam hai, Khudaa to naheeN hai
phir bhi martii hai saarii Khudaa'ii
yeh sar-aa-paa, yeh husn-e-tanaasub
kis musavvir ki hai yeh ghaRaa'ii?
yeh Khudaa ke bhi bas kii naheeN thii
aisii tasveer kis ne banaa'ii?
taaknaa-jhaaNknaa har kisii ko
Qais meiN thii yihii ik buraa'ii :(
------------------
R.K.
Raj Kumar
2007-09-29 00:16:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zafar
she'r ki tas'heeh aur naacheez tabsira pasand karne kaa shukriya.
maiN to thoRaa tazabzub kaa shikaar thaa k kaheeN us mehfil meN
tabsire ki koyi baat aap ko naagavaar na guzri ho!
janaab-e-Zafar saahib:

pehli baat to yeh k aap ka tabsira kisi bhi tarz-e-paimaa'ish par
"naacheez" naheeN tha --- haaN, agar aap "naacheez tabsira" ki bajaaye
"mujh naacheez ka tabsira" kehte to alag baat thi! :) bal-k
LOL

rahi baat "aap ke is chehakte-bolte tabsire ki kisi baat ka mujh neem-
jaaN ki tab'a par naa-gavaar guzarna" -----
huzoor, is baat par to maiN yihii kahooN ga k

"tumheeN kaho k bhalaa yeh bhi ko'ii baat hu'ii"? ;)

janaab, aap ne vaqt ki qillat ke baa-vujood itni mehnat aur jaaN-
fishaani se yeh tabsira likkha aur, aisa karte huye, ham sabhoN ko
klaasikii shaa'iri aur jadeed shaa'iri ke munfarid anaasir se bhi roo-
shinaas kiyaa. aap ki is dil-dehi par sirf maiN hi naheeN bal-k sabhi
shaa'iqaan-e-adab aap ke zer-e-ehsaan haiN!
Post by Zafar
us din aap se khul ke mulaaqaat na ho paa'yi, jis kaa qalaq rahe gaa.
azeez-e-man, yeh QALAQ to mere seene ko bhi khaa gayaa ----- chooN-k
aap agli sub'h Pakistan ke liye ravaana hone vaale the, is liye maiN
samajhta tha k aap 'interval' ke ba'ad chal deN ge magar aap ne aisa
naheeN kiyaa. aur udhar mera yeh haal tha k, interval meiN, vahaaN ke
bachche-bachchiyaaN meri kitaab par mera hast-aakshar lene ke liye sar-
gardaaaN the. afsos k maiN Ghareeb unheeN meN ghiraa rahaa aur aap ke
qalaq ko door hi se dekhta rahaa! :(

aur jab mehfil bar-Khwaast hu'ii to mere mezbaan ghar vaapas lauTne ki
jaldi meiN the --- so I had to comply with their wishes and, once
again, I couldn't spend any reasonable amount of time with you! :(

vaise, agle roz Virginia meiN jo mehfil hu'ii us ka maahaul kuchh aur
hi tha --- vahaaN, maiyaar behtar tha aur takalluf kamtar! I enjoyed
that get-together even more but, alas, you had already left for home.

Believe me, that afternoon I felt your absence very much ----- zehn
meiN mutavaatar Firaaq saahib ka yeh she'r ubharta rahaa:

bazm meiN yooN to saara jahaaN thaa
aap bhi hote -------------- achchha hotaa!!!
Post by Zafar
Khair, yaad zinda, suhbat baaqi.
baat to aap ki durust hai, Zaf ji, magar (aap to jaante hi haiN k) is
"ziNda-dar-gor" ka kyaa bharosa?

Raj Kumar
Naseer
2007-10-04 10:29:13 UTC
Permalink
muHtaram Raj Kumar Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai.

aap kii KHuub-suurat Ghazal paRhii awr dil-chaspii kii baat yih hai
kih mere dil par bi_lkul bhaarii bhii nahiiN paRii!! kahne kaa maqsad
yih hai kih is KHaak-saar ke liye, kam az kam, satHvii ma'ne samajhne
meN itnii ziyaadah diqqat pesh nahiiN aaii. Ghazal baRe pur-kaif
andaaz se shuruu' hotii hai awr jo jo tasviireN zihn meN ubhartii haiN
tamaam kii tamaam nihaayat dil-kash haiN. kis kis shi'r kii ta'riif
karuuN?

aap ne bahut achchhaa kiyaa kih Urdu ke "yatiim" Huruuf-i-tahijjii ko
bhii apnii Ghazal meN jagah dii hai, ya'nii, "ghaRaaii" ke gh awr R.
ma'muul to yih hai kih Te, Daal, Re awr do cashmii he rakhne vaale
Huruuf ko ek yatiim-KHaane meN daaKHil karvaa diyaa gayaa hai awr
inheN shaaz-o-naadir hii baahar khulii havaa meN laayaa jaataa hai!!!

lagtaa hai kih "gar qubuul uftad" kahnaa aap ko bahut hii achchhaa
lagtaa hai!

iraadat-mand,
Naseer
Raj Kumar
2007-10-05 01:02:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Naseer
muHtaram Raj Kumar Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai.
aap kii KHuub-suurat Ghazal paRhii awr dil-chaspii kii baat yih hai
kih mere dil par bi_lkul bhaarii bhii nahiiN paRii!! kahne kaa maqsad
yih hai kih is KHaak-saar ke liye, kam az kam, satHvii ma'ne samajhne
meN itnii ziyaadah diqqat pesh nahiiN aaii. Ghazal baRe pur-kaif
andaaz se shuruu' hotii hai awr jo jo tasviireN zihn meN ubhartii haiN
tamaam kii tamaam nihaayat dil-kash haiN. kis kis shi'r kii ta'riif
karuuN?
navaazish ke liye mamnoon hooN, saahib, aur yaqeen jaaniye k mere liye
yeh intehaa'ii masarrat ki baat hai k meri yeh haqeer kaavish aap ke
husn-e-zann ko pasaNd aa'ii!
Post by Naseer
aap ne bahut achchhaa kiyaa kih Urdu ke "yatiim" Huruuf-i-tahijjii ko
bhii apnii Ghazal meN jagah dii hai, ya'nii, "ghaRaaii" ke gh awr R.
ma'muul to yih hai kih Te, Daal, Re awr do cashmii he rakhne vaale
Huruuf ko ek yatiim-KHaane meN daaKHil karvaa diyaa gayaa hai awr
inheN shaaz-o-naadir hii baahar khulii havaa meN laayaa jaataa hai!!!
Well said, Sir!

Khud mere mushaahide ke mutaabiq, Urdu vaaloN ko aise huroof se (aur
aise alfaaz se, jin meiN aise huroof barte gaye hoN) gurez sa rehta
hai --------- vaj'h Ghaaliban yeh k aise alfaaz "TheTh Hindi" ke
samjhe jaate haiN aur, nateejatan, inheN Urdu shaa'irii meiN baratnaa
kisi had tak "zer-e-sat'h" samjhaa jaata hai. albatta, mujh Khaaksaar
ko aisa ko'ii 'complex' naheeN hai!

To pursue the point further, I'll post (either today or tomorrow) a
Ghazal in which letter "Re" has been given a pretty prominant place!

Raj Kumar
Zafar
2007-10-05 04:26:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Naseer
aap ne bahut achchhaa kiyaa kih Urdu ke "yatiim" Huruuf-i-tahijjii ko
bhii apnii Ghazal meN jagah dii hai, ya'nii, "ghaRaaii" ke gh awr R.
ma'muul to yih hai kih Te, Daal, Re awr do cashmii he rakhne vaale
Huruuf ko ek yatiim-KHaane meN daaKHil karvaa diyaa gayaa hai awr
inheN shaaz-o-naadir hii baahar khulii havaa meN laayaa jaataa hai!!!
janaab Naseer saahib:

maiN hairaan hooN k aap ne kaise in huroof ko ye keh kar yateem qaraar
de diyaa k inheN aaj kal koyi istemaal naheeN kartaa. kis ne aisaa
kiyaa hai aur kab se?

meraa thoRaa bahut vaasta jadeed Urdu shaa'iri aur shaa'iroN se rahaa
hai aur maiN ne to yehi dekhaa hai k aaj kal ke shu'araa shudhh Hindi
ke alfaaz bhi kaheeN ziyaada kasrat se istemaal karne lage haiN (ye
baat maiN pehle bhi inhi safhaat par likh chukaa hooN).

achhaa, aik kaam karte haiN, is vaqt mere qareeb aik Urdu risaala
paRaa hai, Symbol (Jan - Jun 2007). maiN ise uThaa kar hissa e Ghazal
kholtaa hooN aur dekhte haiN k is piTaari meN se kyaa nikaltaa hai:

pehli Ghazal (Zafar Iqbal):

hai khaliyaan Ghalle se 'aari Zafar
to bheRoN pe ugnaa huvi oon band

doosri Ghazal ki radeef hi "khulaa" hai

huveeN jis ghaRi band raaheN sabhi
to ik raastaa raa'igaani khulaa

aap kaheN ge k Zafar Iqbal to vaise hi "be-tukaa" shaa'ir hai, us ki
baat kaa kyaa bharosa? to chaliye chalte haiN agle shaa'ir Nasir
Shehzad ki jaanib (jo daur e jadeed ke aham Ghazal go haiN):

tire davaam ki har gaam dil-rubaa'yi ho
saheli tujh ko na'ye saal ki badhaayi ho!

kabhi to ghoomti chiRiyaaN vujood meN chamkeN
kabhi to jhoomte jhonkoN se aashnaayi ho

vuhi nachint hai jo ant meN hai, aa'inda
ba-jaa naheeN k kitaaboN ki roo-numaayi ho

baRhaa na qurbateN itni k dil machal jaaye
ghaTaa na rabt e baham yooN k jag-hansaayi ho

inhi mausoof ki doosri Ghazal mulaahiza ho:

akeli choTiyaaN, gum sum, ujaaR raste meN
gagan ke neeche khaRaa hai pahaaR raste meN

abhi hai pi kaa nagar door baadalo, Thehro
abhi bhichhaao na paani kaa chaaR raste meN

teesre shaa'ir, Adil Mansuri (one of my favorites!)

Dhote haiN shab o roz ye alfaaz ki eenTeN
rehti hai adhoori hi vo deevaar alag hai

chauthe shaa'ir, Muhammad Alvi

pehli Ghazal:

laRnaa bhiRnaa hai daraKhtoN se
jangal meN shor machaanaa hai

vuhi raateN auRh ke sonaa hai
vuhi din kaa bojh uThaanaa hai

ye jo kaaTh kabaaR saa hai ghar meN
yehi poonji, yehi Khazaana hai

doosri Ghazal:

sooraj nikal rahaa hai
manzar badal rahaa hai

chaandi se aasmaaN par
sonaa pighal rahaa hai

uRtaa huvaa parinda
pankhaa saa jhal rahaa hai

ik peR raaste meN
lagtaa hai, chal rahaa hai

bistar ki salvaToN meN
koyi Khaab pal rahaa hai

khiRki se jhaankne ko
kamraa machal rahaa hai

hissa e nazm ki taraf chaleN?

Wazir Agha sab se pehle biraajmaan haiN. in ki nazm kaa unvaan hai,
chalo ham bhi vahaaN pahuncheN. pehli teen satreN:

chalo ham bhi vahaaN panhuncheN
jahaaN honToN ke donoN paT
larazti chup kaa ik manhoos bandhan ban gaye haiN

Agha saahib ki doosri nazm hai, Compassion:

aankh ki kaali putli meN
ik ramaq ma'an baidaar huvi
aur ThanDe Thaar falak par se
ik garm sitaara aansoo kaa
dheere se giraa

-----

mazeed misaaleN mahaz taz'ee e vaqt ho gaa.

aadaab arz hai,

Zafar
Naseer
2007-10-05 06:29:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zafar
Post by Naseer
aap ne bahut achchhaa kiyaa kih Urdu ke "yatiim" Huruuf-i-tahijjii ko
bhii apnii Ghazal meN jagah dii hai, ya'nii, "ghaRaaii" ke gh awr R.
ma'muul to yih hai kih Te, Daal, Re awr do cashmii he rakhne vaale
Huruuf ko ek yatiim-KHaane meN daaKHil karvaa diyaa gayaa hai awr
inheN shaaz-o-naadir hii baahar khulii havaa meN laayaa jaataa hai!!!
maiN hairaan hooN k aap ne kaise in huroof ko ye keh kar yateem qaraar
de diyaa k inheN aaj kal koyi istemaal naheeN kartaa. kis ne aisaa
kiyaa hai aur kab se?
meraa thoRaa bahut vaasta jadeed Urdu shaa'iri aur shaa'iroN se rahaa
hai aur maiN ne to yehi dekhaa hai k aaj kal ke shu'araa shudhh Hindi
ke alfaaz bhi kaheeN ziyaada kasrat se istemaal karne lage haiN (ye
baat maiN pehle bhi inhi safhaat par likh chukaa hooN).
achhaa, aik kaam karte haiN, is vaqt mere qareeb aik Urdu risaala
paRaa hai, Symbol (Jan - Jun 2007). maiN ise uThaa kar hissa e Ghazal
hai khaliyaan Ghalle se 'aari Zafar
to bheRoN pe ugnaa huvi oon band
doosri Ghazal ki radeef hi "khulaa" hai
huveeN jis ghaRi band raaheN sabhi
to ik raastaa raa'igaani khulaa
aap kaheN ge k Zafar Iqbal to vaise hi "be-tukaa" shaa'ir hai, us ki
baat kaa kyaa bharosa? to chaliye chalte haiN agle shaa'ir Nasir
tire davaam ki har gaam dil-rubaa'yi ho
saheli tujh ko na'ye saal ki badhaayi ho!
kabhi to ghoomti chiRiyaaN vujood meN chamkeN
kabhi to jhoomte jhonkoN se aashnaayi ho
vuhi nachint hai jo ant meN hai, aa'inda
ba-jaa naheeN k kitaaboN ki roo-numaayi ho
baRhaa na qurbateN itni k dil machal jaaye
ghaTaa na rabt e baham yooN k jag-hansaayi ho
akeli choTiyaaN, gum sum, ujaaR raste meN
gagan ke neeche khaRaa hai pahaaR raste meN
abhi hai pi kaa nagar door baadalo, Thehro
abhi bhichhaao na paani kaa chaaR raste meN
teesre shaa'ir, Adil Mansuri (one of my favorites!)
Dhote haiN shab o roz ye alfaaz ki eenTeN
rehti hai adhoori hi vo deevaar alag hai
chauthe shaa'ir, Muhammad Alvi
laRnaa bhiRnaa hai daraKhtoN se
jangal meN shor machaanaa hai
vuhi raateN auRh ke sonaa hai
vuhi din kaa bojh uThaanaa hai
ye jo kaaTh kabaaR saa hai ghar meN
yehi poonji, yehi Khazaana hai
sooraj nikal rahaa hai
manzar badal rahaa hai
chaandi se aasmaaN par
sonaa pighal rahaa hai
uRtaa huvaa parinda
pankhaa saa jhal rahaa hai
ik peR raaste meN
lagtaa hai, chal rahaa hai
bistar ki salvaToN meN
koyi Khaab pal rahaa hai
khiRki se jhaankne ko
kamraa machal rahaa hai
hissa e nazm ki taraf chaleN?
Wazir Agha sab se pehle biraajmaan haiN. in ki nazm kaa unvaan hai,
chalo ham bhi vahaaN panhuncheN
jahaaN honToN ke donoN paT
larazti chup kaa ik manhoos bandhan ban gaye haiN
aankh ki kaali putli meN
ik ramaq ma'an baidaar huvi
aur ThanDe Thaar falak par se
ik garm sitaara aansoo kaa
dheere se giraa
-----
mazeed misaaleN mahaz taz'ee e vaqt ho gaa.
aadaab arz hai,
Zafar
janaab-i-Zafar Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai.

aap kii Hairaanii bi_lkul ba-jaa hai awr is kaa sabab mere alfaaz kii
"imprecision" hai. kahnaa maiN yih chaah rahaa thaa kih Te, Daal,
Re,bh, ph, th,Th, jh, chh, dh, Dh, Rh, kh, gh jaisii aavaazoN se
banaae gae alfaaz ba-taur-i-radiif bahut kam isti'maal meN laae jaate
haiN. mujhe yaqiin hai kih Raj Kumar Sahib ne merii yih baat inhiiN
ma'noN meN tasliim kii hai.

duusare, shaayad mujhe kuchh taftiish kar ke yih baat kahnii chaahiye
thii. mujhe i'tiraaf karnaa paRe gaa kih maiN ne jadiid shu'raa kaa
kalaam bahut kam paRaa hai. is kaa matlab yih hargiz nahiiN kih
asaatizah ke kalaam se maiN achchhii tarH vaaqif hoN!! yih to 'aalim
faazil logoN kaa kaam hai. meraa 'ilm is silsile meN ek anaaRii se
ziyaadah nahiiN hai.

is ke 'ilaavah maiN ba-KHuubii jaantaa huuN kih in Huruuf se bane hue
alfaaz kii ta'daad nisbat-an bahut kam hai. aap ne jo misaaleN dii
haiN un meN in Huruuf kaa radiif meN isti'maal aaTe meN namak ke
baraabar hai. ho saktaa hai kih ab aap darjanoN misaaleN le aaeN:)

KHair-Khvaah,
Naseer
Zafar
2007-10-05 20:20:11 UTC
Permalink
janaab Naseer saahib:

are saahib, aap ne to "goal-post" 50 door lagaa kar hamaare kiye gaye
saare goaloN ko "disqualify" qaraar de diyaa hai! :)
Post by Naseer
aap ne bahut achchhaa kiyaa kih Urdu ke "yatiim" Huruuf-i-tahijjii ko
bhii apnii Ghazal meN jagah dii hai, ya'nii, "ghaRaaii" ke gh awr R.
ma'muul to yih hai kih Te, Daal, Re awr do cashmii he rakhne vaale
Huruuf ko ek yatiim-KHaane meN daaKHil karvaa diyaa gayaa hai awr
inheN shaaz-o-naadir hii baahar khulii havaa meN laayaa jaataa hai!!!
aap kii Hairaanii bi_lkul ba-jaa hai awr is kaa sabab mere alfaaz kii
"imprecision" hai. kahnaa maiN yih chaah rahaa thaa kih Te, Daal,
Re,bh, ph, th,Th, jh, chh, dh, Dh, Rh, kh, gh jaisii aavaazoN se
banaae gae alfaaz ba-taur-i-radiif bahut kam isti'maal meN laae jaate
haiN. mujhe yaqiin hai kih Raj Kumar Sahib ne merii yih baat inhiiN
ma'noN meN tasliim kii hai.
huzoor, maiN aap ki ye baat tasleem karne se qaasir hooN. kal maiN ne
baGhair kisi mansooba-bandi ke, goyaa "qalam-bardaashta!", qareeb paRe
huve adabi risaale se misaaleN de kar ye vaazih kar diyaa thaa k ye
baat durust naheeN hai.

aap ne baat RK saahib ki Ghazal meN lafz "ghaRaa'yi" se shuru' ki thi
jo radeef naheeN bal k qaafiya hai! chaliye radeef hi sahi; maiN ne
jo 7 GhazleN paish ki theeN, un meN se aik ki radeef "khulaa" hai ...
lekin use aap ne "aaTe meN namak" qaraar diyaa hai!

huzoor, mujh par na sahi, kam az kam us aaTe ki roTi khaane vaaloN hi
par rehm kar leN jis aaTe meN 14% namak ho!

Khair, ab gend aap ke court meN phenkte haiN. az raah e karam hameN
bataaiye k:

1. aaj kal retroflex aur aspirated constants istemaal na karne vaale
shaa'ir kaun kaun se haiN jinhoN ne in aavaazoN ko "yateem" banaa
Daalaa hai?

2. aap ki tehreer se zaahir hotaa hai k pehle kisi daur meN in
aavaazoN kaa istemaal bahut 'aam thaa jo ab kam, bal k Khatm, ho gayaa
hai.

kyaa is baat ki vazaahat aap kuchh misaaloN se kar sakte haiN?
ya'ani, masalan, aik sadi qabl ke shu'araa ke kalaam meN (yaa radeefoN
meN?) in aavaazoN ki frequency kaa maujooda daur se taqaabul?

3. in aavaazoN ko "yateem Khaane meN daaKhil" karaane ki is mubayyina
"tehreek" kaa aaGhaaz kab huvaa?

4. kyaa ye chalan sirf Ghazal tak mehdood hai yaa is kaa rivaaj nazm
meN bhi hai?

5. is "tehreek" ke muharrikaat kyaa haiN?

aadaab arz hai,

Zafar
Naseer
2007-10-05 22:00:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zafar
are saahib, aap ne to "goal-post" 50 door lagaa kar hamaare kiye gaye
saare goaloN ko "disqualify" qaraar de diyaa hai! :)
Post by Naseer
aap ne bahut achchhaa kiyaa kih Urdu ke "yatiim" Huruuf-i-tahijjii ko
bhii apnii Ghazal meN jagah dii hai, ya'nii, "ghaRaaii" ke gh awr R.
ma'muul to yih hai kih Te, Daal, Re awr do cashmii he rakhne vaale
Huruuf ko ek yatiim-KHaane meN daaKHil karvaa diyaa gayaa hai awr
inheN shaaz-o-naadir hii baahar khulii havaa meN laayaa jaataa hai!!!
aap kii Hairaanii bi_lkul ba-jaa hai awr is kaa sabab mere alfaaz kii
"imprecision" hai. kahnaa maiN yih chaah rahaa thaa kih Te, Daal,
Re,bh, ph, th,Th, jh, chh, dh, Dh, Rh, kh, gh jaisii aavaazoN se
banaae gae alfaaz ba-taur-i-radiif bahut kam isti'maal meN laae jaate
haiN. mujhe yaqiin hai kih Raj Kumar Sahib ne merii yih baat inhiiN
ma'noN meN tasliim kii hai.
huzoor, maiN aap ki ye baat tasleem karne se qaasir hooN. kal maiN ne
baGhair kisi mansooba-bandi ke, goyaa "qalam-bardaashta!", qareeb paRe
huve adabi risaale se misaaleN de kar ye vaazih kar diyaa thaa k ye
baat durust naheeN hai.
janaab-i-Zafar Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai.

lagtaa hai kih maiN ne apnii baat ko vaaziH nahiiN kiyaa awr is kaa
maiN i'tiraaf bhii kar chukaa huuN. ek baar phir samjhaane kii koshish
kartaa huuN awr agar is baar bhii aap ne kahaa kih maiN ne "goal
posts" ko idhar udhar sarkaa diyaa hai to maiN aap ko qusuur-vaar
nahiiN ThahraauuN gaa!

merii muraad muKHtasar alfaaz meN yih hai kih misr'e ke aaKHirii lafz
kaa aaKHirii Harf "retroflex/aspirate" bahut kam dekhne meN aayaa hai.
aap ko diivaan-i-Ghalib meN is kii ek hii misaal mile gii.

hai sabzah-zaar har dar-o-diivaar-i-mai-kadah
jis kii bahaar yih ho phir us kii KHizaaN nah puuchh
naa-chaar be-kasii kii bhii Hasrat uThaaiye
dushvaarii-i-rah-o-sitam-i-ham-rihaaN nah puuchh

Saudaa kii Ghazaliyaat meN aisii 11 misaaleN miltii haiN jin meN 2 Re
kii bhii shaamil haiN. samajh, kuchh, saath awr haath ke sivaa awr
koii radiif nahiiN.

Miir ke chhe diivaanoN meN Ghazaliyaat meN 27 misaaleN haiN jin meN 2
Te kii haiN awr 1 Re kii. kuchh, saath, haath, dekh, samajh awr baiTH
baqiyah GHazaloN meN isti'maal kiye gae haiN.
Post by Zafar
aap ne baat RK saahib ki Ghazal meN lafz "ghaRaa'yi" se shuru' ki thi
jo radeef naheeN bal k qaafiya hai! chaliye radeef hi sahi; maiN ne
jo 7 GhazleN paish ki theeN, un meN se aik ki radeef "khulaa" hai ...
lekin use aap ne "aaTe meN namak" qaraar diyaa hai!
jii haaN, maiN ne vaaqi'ii is lafz se baat chheRii thii. lekin meraa
asl maqsad vahii thaa jo maiN 'arz kar chukaa huuN.
Post by Zafar
huzoor, mujh par na sahi, kam az kam us aaTe ki roTi khaane vaaloN hi
par rehm kar leN jis aaTe meN 14% namak ho!
mere "nae" goal-post ke mutaabiq "khulaa" to kisii khaate meN nahiiN
aataa! lihaazah kisii par raHm kii zaruurat nahiiN hai:)
Post by Zafar
Khair, ab gend aap ke court meN phenkte haiN. az raah e karam hameN
vaise mujhe cricket ke khel meN ziyaadah dil-chaspii hai lekin agar
aap mujhe Tennis khelne par majbuur karte haiN to aap kii marzii!!

ab aap ke imtiHaanii parche kii taraf rujuu' kartaa huuN:)
Post by Zafar
1. aaj kal retroflex aur aspirated constants istemaal na karne vaale
shaa'ir kaun kaun se haiN jinhoN ne in aavaazoN ko "yateem" banaa
Daalaa hai?
mere pichhle KHat kaa mulaaHizah kiijiye jis meN maiN ne kahaa hai kih
jadiid shu'araa ke kalaam se maiN ziyaadah vaaqif nahiiN huuN.
Post by Zafar
2. aap ki tehreer se zaahir hotaa hai k pehle kisi daur meN in
aavaazoN kaa istemaal bahut 'aam thaa jo ab kam, bal k Khatm, ho gayaa
hai.
nahiiN janaab, nah jaane aap ne yih ta'assur kaise le liyaa hai. is ke
bar-'aks maiN ne aap ko tiin asaatizah ke kalaam se a'daad-o-shumaar
pesh kiye haiN jin se to in Huruuf ke isti'maal kaa "trend" niiche hii
ko hai.
Post by Zafar
kyaa is baat ki vazaahat aap kuchh misaaloN se kar sakte haiN?
ya'ani, masalan, aik sadi qabl ke shu'araa ke kalaam meN (yaa radeefoN
meN?) in aavaazoN ki frequency kaa maujooda daur se taqaabul?
maujuudah daur se to taqaabul nahiiN kar saktaa. isii savaal No. 2 ke
pahle javaab ko ek baar phir dekhiye.
Post by Zafar
3. in aavaazoN ko "yateem Khaane meN daaKhil" karaane ki is mubayyina
"tehreek" kaa aaGhaaz kab huvaa?
mumtaHin saaHib. ek baar phir maiN aap ke savaal kaa javaab Thiik tarH
nahiiN de saktaa magar itnaa kah saktaa huuN kih Miir ke ba'd rujHaan
in Huruuf ke kam isti'maal hone kii jaanib thaa.
Post by Zafar
4. kyaa ye chalan sirf Ghazal tak mehdood hai yaa is kaa rivaaj nazm
meN bhi hai?
mere KHayaal meN is "biimaarii" se Ghazal ziyaadah muta'assar huii
hai. nazm ko bhii Thes pahuNchii hai lekin is daf'ah zarb kaarii
nahiiN thii :)
Post by Zafar
5. is "tehreek" ke muharrikaat kyaa haiN?
maiN ne is mauzuu' par koii taftiish nahiiN kii hai. andaaze se kah
saktaa huuN kih yih aavaazeN duusarii aavaazoN kii nisbat itnii narm-o-
mulaaim nahiiN samjhii jaatiiN . is ke 'ilaavah "se", "che", "He",
"KHe", "zaal", "s(w)aad", "zawaad", "toe", "zoe", "'ain" awr "GHain"
vaGHairah kii tarH in Huruuf se Khatm hone vaale alfaaz kii ta'daad
itnii kasiir bhii nahiiN.

KHair-Khvaah,
Naseer
UVR
2007-10-05 22:14:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Naseer
aap kii Hairaanii bi_lkul ba-jaa hai awr is kaa sabab mere alfaaz kii
"imprecision" hai. kahnaa maiN yih chaah rahaa thaa kih Te, Daal,
Re,bh, ph, th,Th, jh, chh, dh, Dh, Rh, kh, gh jaisii aavaazoN se
banaae gae alfaaz ba-taur-i-radiif bahut kam isti'maal meN laae jaate
haiN. mujhe yaqiin hai kih Raj Kumar Sahib ne merii yih baat inhiiN
ma'noN meN tasliim kii hai.
yeh naacheez yooN to "apni shehnaai (trumpet!) aap bajaane"
se gurez kartaa hai, magar 'arz hai k aap ki Khidmat meN ek
Ghazal Khaaksaar ne bhi kuchh arsa pahle pesh ki thi, jahaaN
radeef ke taur par "oRhe hue" kaa fiqra must'amal thaa. Google
ke saujanya se woh Ghazal aaj bhi aap inheeN safhaat par
paRh sakte haiN.

agarche meri us kaawish ko ALUP ke kisi bhi "ustaad shaa'ir"
ki tawajjoh naseeb naheeN hui, magar phir bhi maiN Khud ko
Khushnaseeb maantaa hooN k Zafar saahib jaise qadr-daan
ne us par apne ta`assuraat kaa izhaar kiyaa.

-UVR.
Raj Kumar
2007-10-06 00:06:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by UVR
agarche meri us kaawish ko ALUP ke kisi bhi "ustaad shaa'ir"
ki tawajjoh naseeb naheeN hui, magar phir bhi maiN Khud ko
Khushnaseeb maantaa hooN k Zafar saahib jaise qadr-daan
ne us par apne ta`assuraat kaa izhaar kiyaa.
to kyaa Zafar saahib ALUP ke "ustaad sho'araa" ki fehrist meiN naheeN
aate?
agar naheeN aate to us fehrist ki auqaat kyaa hai???

R.K.
UVR
2007-10-06 01:47:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Raj Kumar
Post by UVR
agarche meri us kaawish ko ALUP ke kisi bhi "ustaad shaa'ir"
ki tawajjoh naseeb naheeN hui, magar phir bhi maiN Khud ko
Khushnaseeb maantaa hooN k Zafar saahib jaise qadr-daan
ne us par apne ta`assuraat kaa izhaar kiyaa.
to kyaa Zafar saahib ALUP ke "ustaad sho'araa" ki fehrist meiN naheeN
aate?
agar naheeN aate to us fehrist ki auqaat kyaa hai???
R.K.
RK saahib,

aap ne Ghaur to kiya hi hogaa k maiN ne yeh naheeN kahaa k
"meri us kaawish ko kisi _ustaad_ ki tawaajoh naheeN mili."
meri baat kaa itlaaq Khaas taur se "ustaad shaa'ir"oN par hi
thaa. aur is baat se to aap bhi inkaar na kareNge kisi shaKhs
ke "ustaad shaa'ir" hone ke liye us kaa ustaad honaa aur shaa'ir
honaa donoN hi necessary conditions haiN, in meN se sirf ek
condition kaa honaa sufficient naheeN.

Khair, haqeeqat yeh hai k agarche Zafar saahib kaa maiN
yaqeenan apne "ustaadoN" ki fehrist meN shumaar kartaa
hooN, magar phir bhi -- chooN k maiN ne mausoof ki ek hi
Ghazal paRhi hai -- m'otarif hooN k unheN "shaa'iroN" ki
fehrist meN shaamil karne meN mujhe taa'ammul hai.

haaN, agar darj-e-baalaa '(dis)qualification' par aan hazrat
josh meN aa jaayeN aur ALUP par apni GhazloN ki ain
waisi dhuaaN-dhaar laRi barsaa deN jaise haal meN Shri
Yuvraj Singh ne "6-ers" ki lagaayi thi, to kyaa baat hogi!

meraa Khayaal hai k is wazaahat se us fehrist ki "auqaat"
kaa andaaza ho hi gayaa hogaa.

-UVR.

PS: Sir, this is why I suggest you stop frequenting "those
other" mahaafil -- they're "blunting" your style! :)
Zafar
2007-10-06 02:58:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by UVR
Post by Raj Kumar
Post by UVR
agarche meri us kaawish ko ALUP ke kisi bhi "ustaad shaa'ir"
ki tawajjoh naseeb naheeN hui, magar phir bhi maiN Khud ko
Khushnaseeb maantaa hooN k Zafar saahib jaise qadr-daan
ne us par apne ta`assuraat kaa izhaar kiyaa.
to kyaa Zafar saahib ALUP ke "ustaad sho'araa" ki fehrist meiN naheeN
aate?
agar naheeN aate to us fehrist ki auqaat kyaa hai???
R.K.
RK saahib,
aap ne Ghaur to kiya hi hogaa k maiN ne yeh naheeN kahaa k
"meri us kaawish ko kisi _ustaad_ ki tawaajoh naheeN mili."
meri baat kaa itlaaq Khaas taur se "ustaad shaa'ir"oN par hi
thaa. aur is baat se to aap bhi inkaar na kareNge kisi shaKhs
ke "ustaad shaa'ir" hone ke liye us kaa ustaad honaa aur shaa'ir
honaa donoN hi necessary conditions haiN, in meN se sirf ek
condition kaa honaa sufficient naheeN.
Khair, haqeeqat yeh hai k agarche Zafar saahib kaa maiN
yaqeenan apne "ustaadoN" ki fehrist meN shumaar kartaa
hooN, magar phir bhi -- chooN k maiN ne mausoof ki ek hi
Ghazal paRhi hai -- m'otarif hooN k unheN "shaa'iroN" ki
fehrist meN shaamil karne meN mujhe taa'ammul hai.
haaN, agar darj-e-baalaa '(dis)qualification' par aan hazrat
josh meN aa jaayeN aur ALUP par apni GhazloN ki ain
waisi dhuaaN-dhaar laRi barsaa deN jaise haal meN Shri
Yuvraj Singh ne "6-ers" ki lagaayi thi, to kyaa baat hogi!
ye to vuhi baat huvi UVR ji k

dost kehtaa hooN tumheN, shaa'ir naheeN kehtaa, Shu'oor
dosti apni jagah hai, shaa'iri apni jagah!!!

jab yahaaN aa gaye haiN to, bar sabeel e tazkira, isi Ghazal kaa aik
aur "dhaansu" qism kaa she'r bhi sunte jaa'iye:

sirf us ke honT kaaGhaz par banaa detaa hooN maiN
Khud banaa leti hai honToN par hansi apni jagah!

jahaaN tak shaa'iri aur ustaadi ki baat rahi to arz hai k ye to kuchh
ham hi jaante haiN k ham kitne baRe "ustaad" haiN, bas aap hamaaraa
moonh na khulvaa'yeN!

aadaab arz hai,

Zafar
Raj Kumar
2007-10-06 19:28:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by UVR
Post by Raj Kumar
to kyaa Zafar saahib ALUP ke "ustaad sho'araa" ki fehrist meiN naheeN
aate?
agar naheeN aate to us fehrist ki auqaat kyaa hai???
R.K.
RK saahib,
aap ne Ghaur to kiya hi hogaa k maiN ne yeh naheeN kahaa k
"meri us kaawish ko kisi _ustaad_ ki tawaajoh naheeN mili."
meri baat kaa itlaaq Khaas taur se "ustaad shaa'ir"oN par hi
thaa. aur is baat se to aap bhi inkaar na kareNge kisi shaKhs
ke "ustaad shaa'ir" hone ke liye us kaa ustaad honaa aur shaa'ir
honaa donoN hi necessary conditions haiN, in meN se sirf ek
condition kaa honaa sufficient naheeN.
Khair, haqeeqat yeh hai k agarche Zafar saahib kaa maiN
yaqeenan apne "ustaadoN" ki fehrist meN shumaar kartaa
hooN, magar phir bhi -- chooN k maiN ne mausoof ki ek hi
Ghazal paRhi hai -- m'otarif hooN k unheN "shaa'iroN" ki
fehrist meN shaamil karne meN mujhe taa'ammul hai.
haaN, agar darj-e-baalaa '(dis)qualification' par aan hazrat
josh meN aa jaayeN aur ALUP par apni GhazloN ki ain
waisi dhuaaN-dhaar laRi barsaa deN jaise haal meN Shri
Yuvraj Singh ne "6-ers" ki lagaayi thi, to kyaa baat hogi!
meraa Khayaal hai k is wazaahat se us fehrist ki "auqaat"
kaa andaaza ho hi gayaa hogaa.
-UVR.
PS: Sir, this is why I suggest you stop frequenting "those
other" mahaafil -- they're "blunting" your style! :)
Hmmmmm, I get it -------------- Ravindra saahib.

You are definitely right to say that my going to these other
"mahaafil" has probably "blunted" my style.
But I hope you didn't mean "my style of narration" --- which,
unfortunately, has always been blunt (though, in a somewhat different
sense)! :)

I hope, you meant "my sharpness of observation" and/or "my sense of
perception"! If you meant that, then I indeed plead guilty! :(

nateejatan, ab to yihii keh sakta hooN k

lo, voh bhi keh rahe haiN k "ghis-piT" gayaa hai Qais!

Naseer saahib, zaraa is "ghis-piT" par tavajjo farmaaiye --- yahaaN
shaa'ir ne, apne misr'e meiN, aap ke do "yateem" huroof ko kyaa Khush-
usloobi se samoyaa hai! ;)

ba-har-haal, poora bayaan Khaaksaar ka yeh hai:

lo, voh bhi keh rahe haiN k "ghis-piT" gayaa hai Qais!
yeh jaantaa to 'kaahe ko' jaataa "udhar" ko maiN? ;)

R.K.

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