Discussion:
ghalib vs iqbal vs faraz - fact or fiction
(too old to reply)
v
2014-08-15 11:28:11 UTC
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I got a message on a social networking site. it quoted three couplets

Ghaalib sharaab peene de masjid me.n baiTh kar
yaa woh jagah bataa jahaa.n Khudaa nahii.n

masjid Khuda ka ghar hai, peene kee jagah nahii.n
kaafir ke dil me.n jaa, wahaa.n Khudaa nahii.n

kaafir ke dil se aayaa hoo.n mai.n ye dekh kar faraaz
Khudaa maujood hai wahaa.n, par use pataa nahii.n

it credited these three to ghalib, iqbal and faraaz respectively.

it wrapped these couplets in some intellectual sounding nonsense.

i obviously knew the first one is misquoted. but i suspect that all three are wrong and wrongly attributed (if at all these are indeed couplets)

a quick websearch reveals that the web is full of this nonsense.

can a knowledgeable member illuminate.

regards

ravi
v***@gmail.com
2014-08-15 11:45:45 UTC
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Post by v
I got a message on a social networking site. it quoted three couplets
Ghaalib sharaab peene de masjid me.n baiTh kar
yaa woh jagah bataa jahaa.n Khudaa nahii.n
masjid Khuda ka ghar hai, peene kee jagah nahii.n
kaafir ke dil me.n jaa, wahaa.n Khudaa nahii.n
kaafir ke dil se aayaa hoo.n mai.n ye dekh kar faraaz
Khudaa maujood hai wahaa.n, par use pataa nahii.n
it credited these three to ghalib, iqbal and faraaz respectively.
it wrapped these couplets in some intellectual sounding nonsense.
i obviously knew the first one is misquoted. but i suspect that all three are wrong and wrongly attributed (if at all these are indeed couplets)
a quick websearch reveals that the web is full of this nonsense.
can a knowledgeable member illuminate.
regards
ravi
et tu Brute?
v
2014-08-19 14:10:51 UTC
Permalink
ha ha.

i was having a problem with this site for a couple of days. so i could make out there was a response, but could not read it.

tujhko pardaa ruKhe raushan se haTaanaa hogaa
pyaas kuchh aur bhii bhaDkaa dii jhalak dikhlaa ke.

but who is the author of the first couplet. i know that is a genuine one, the others might be fake.
v***@gmail.com
2014-08-19 14:56:51 UTC
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Post by v
but who is the author of the first couplet. i know that is a genuine one, the others might be fake.
Ravi sahib: I have always known the first she'r as:

zaahid sharaab piine de masjid men baiTh kar
ya voh jagah bata ki jahaaN p' Khuda na ho!

Obviously the Internet brigade who attribute every 'populist' she'r to Ghalib, Iqbal, or as here, Faraaz, to embelish its significance further, has replaced 'zaahid' with 'Ghalib'. I am none the wiser as to who the real author is, but suffice it to say that it is likely not Mirza Ghalib!

Best regards,


Vijay
Raj Kumar
2014-08-19 17:18:44 UTC
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Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by v
but who is the author of the first couplet. i know that is a genuine one, the others might be fake.
zaahid sharaab piine de masjid men baiTh kar
ya voh jagah bata ki jahaaN p' Khuda na ho!
Obviously the Internet brigade who attribute every 'populist' she'r to >Ghalib, Iqbal, or as here, Faraaz, to embelish its significance further, has >replaced 'zaahid' with 'Ghalib'. I am none the wiser as to who the real author >is, but suffice it to say that it is likely not Mirza Ghalib!
***agarche Vijay saaHib ne is she'r ki saHeeH shakl pesh kar di hai, taaham is meN aek ma'amuuli sa naqs reh gayaa hai --- voh yeh k is ke duusre misr'e meN p' ki bajaaye par honaa chaahiye. vajah yeh k p' ka vazn aadhe syllable ka hai jab-k maqaam yahaaN puure syllable ka hai; hence, par --- not p'.

rahii baat is she'r ke Khaaliq ki to javaab Haazir hai --- Riaz Khairaabaadi.

Raj Kumar***
v***@gmail.com
2014-08-19 21:57:04 UTC
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Post by Raj Kumar
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by v
but who is the author of the first couplet. i know that is a genuine one, the others might be fake.
zaahid sharaab piine de masjid men baiTh kar
ya voh jagah bata ki jahaaN p' Khuda na ho!
Obviously the Internet brigade who attribute every 'populist' she'r to >Ghalib, Iqbal, or as here, Faraaz, to embelish its significance further, has >replaced 'zaahid' with 'Ghalib'. I am none the wiser as to who the real author >is, but suffice it to say that it is likely not Mirza Ghalib!
***agarche Vijay saaHib ne is she'r ki saHeeH shakl pesh kar di hai, taaham is meN aek ma'amuuli sa naqs reh gayaa hai --- voh yeh k is ke duusre misr'e meN p' ki bajaaye par honaa chaahiye. vajah yeh k p' ka vazn aadhe syllable ka hai jab-k maqaam yahaaN puure syllable ka hai; hence, par --- not p'.
rahii baat is she'r ke Khaaliq ki to javaab Haazir hai --- Riaz Khairaabaadi.
Raj Kumar***
Many thanks Raj sahib for the correction and for supplying us with he name of the poet.

Regards,

Vijay
v
2014-08-20 10:33:58 UTC
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raj kumaar aur vijay ashaab

shukriyaa



isme.n doosraa misraa yoo.n diyaa hai

ya voh jagah bata de jahaaN par Khuda na ho!

which is the correct form.

isn't mujhko yaaro maaf karnaa written by mir.

what about the other two couplets in the original post. are they totally fake ones.

if so, who sits and makes up such stuff! !%$*#

and also, what does it say about me, that i cannot tell it from the real mccoy :(
v***@gmail.com
2014-08-20 15:46:51 UTC
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Post by v
raj kumaar aur vijay ashaab
shukriyaa
http://youtu.be/dZIuWszlCcI
isme.n doosraa misraa yoo.n diyaa hai
ya voh jagah bata de jahaaN par Khuda na ho!
which is the correct form.
Ravi sahib, 'de' instead of 'ki' is a relatively minor alteration and I think it will be safe to go with 'de'.
Post by v
isn't mujhko yaaro maaf karnaa written by mir.
No Sir, it is not by miir. And it is not even a Ghazal. (Doesn't conform to the parameters that constitute a Ghazal).

Miir did write a Ghazal with the following matla:

yaaro mujhe mua'af rakho, maiN nashe meN huuN
ab do to jaam Khaali hii do, maiN nashe meN huuN!

So yes, there is some inspiration derived from miir, but that is about it. Rest of the asha'ar on request but maqta goes like this:

nazuk mizaaj aap qayaamat haiN miir jii
*juuN shiisha* mere muuNh na lago, maiN nashe meN huuN

juuN shiisha: botal kii tarah!
Post by v
what about the other two couplets in the original post. are they totally fake ones.
if so, who sits and makes up such stuff! !%$*#
and also, what does it say about me, that i cannot tell it from the real mccoy :(
They are out of meter with very pedestrian content. I am sure you can tell they are not by some ustaad:-)!

Best regards,

Vijay
B.G. M.
2014-08-20 17:18:43 UTC
Permalink
----------------------
nazuk mizaaj aap qayaamat haiN miir jii

*juuN shiisha* mere muuNh na lago, maiN nashe meN huuN

-----------------------------------
pehlaa misr'a yuuN bhi ho saktaa hai,

naazuk mizaaj aap qayaamat hai, Meer Ji
*juuN sheeshah* mere muuNh nah lago, maiN nashe meN huuN

(meaning, "the delicate nature (personallity) itself is like a Doom's day")

Huh?

=========================================================================
Anil Kala
2014-08-22 06:46:53 UTC
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Post by B.G. M.
naazuk mizaaj aap qayaamat hai, Meer Ji
*juuN sheeshah* mere muuNh nah lago, maiN nashe meN huuN
(meaning, "the delicate nature (personallity) itself is like a Doom's day")
my take, if it is 'hai' rather than 'haiN' we can't have literal translation .. then 'qayamat hai' becomes a phrase meaning 'are you kidding!'

naazuk mizaaj aap! Are you kidding Miir ji?
v***@gmail.com
2014-08-22 07:46:06 UTC
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Post by Anil Kala
Post by B.G. M.
naazuk mizaaj aap qayaamat hai, Meer Ji
*juuN sheeshah* mere muuNh nah lago, maiN nashe meN huuN
(meaning, "the delicate nature (personallity) itself is like a Doom's day")
my take, if it is 'hai' rather than 'haiN' we can't have literal translation .. then 'qayamat hai' becomes a phrase meaning 'are you kidding!'
naazuk mizaaj aap! Are you kidding Miir ji?
Anil sahib, BGM sahib: in my humble opinion the line means:

miir jii aap qayamat ke nazuk mizaaj haiN! Hence haiN, not hai. Anil sahib, with your interpretation, the second line doesn't gel with the first.

Regards,

Vijay
B.G. M.
2014-08-24 01:39:59 UTC
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Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by Anil Kala
Post by B.G. M.
naazuk mizaaj aap qayaamat hai, Meer Ji
*juuN sheeshah* mere muuNh nah lago, maiN nashe meN huuN
(meaning, "the delicate nature (personallity) itself is like a Doom's day")
my take, if it is 'hai' rather than 'haiN' we can't have literal translation .. then 'qayamat hai' becomes a phrase meaning 'are you kidding!'
naazuk mizaaj aap! Are you kidding Miir ji?
miir jii aap qayamat ke nazuk mizaaj haiN! Hence haiN, not hai. Anil sahib, with your interpretation, the second line doesn't gel with the first.
Regards,
Vijay
miir jii aap qayamat ke nazuk mizaaj haiN!

" sorry, hard to swallow"

=============================================
Anil Kala
2014-08-24 03:20:30 UTC
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Ditto!
shagird
2014-08-20 21:41:45 UTC
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Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by v
raj kumaar aur vijay ashaab
shukriyaa
http://youtu.be/dZIuWszlCcI
isme.n doosraa misraa yoo.n diyaa hai
ya voh jagah bata de jahaaN par Khuda na ho!
which is the correct form.
Ravi sahib, 'de' instead of 'ki' is a relatively minor alteration and I think it will be safe to go with 'de'.
Post by v
isn't mujhko yaaro maaf karnaa written by mir.
No Sir, it is not by miir. And it is not even a Ghazal. (Doesn't conform to the parameters that constitute a Ghazal).
yaaro mujhe mua'af rakho, maiN nashe meN huuN
ab do to jaam Khaali hii do, maiN nashe meN huuN!

Post by v***@gmail.com
nazuk mizaaj aap qayaamat haiN miir jii
*juuN shiisha* mere muuNh na lago, maiN nashe meN huuN
juuN shiisha: botal kii tarah!
Post by v
what about the other two couplets in the original post. are they totally fake ones.
if so, who sits and makes up such stuff! !%$*#
and also, what does it say about me, that i cannot tell it from the real mccoy :(
They are out of meter with very pedestrian content. I am sure you can tell they are not by some ustaad:-)!
Best regards,
Vijay
v***@gmail.com
2014-08-24 09:29:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by shagird
http://youtu.be/ybo3dt6k2r8
Thanks Atif sahib for posting this very good song. I believe that the first and the third verses are by Miir in this rendition, the others by Saif-ud-diin Saif. The second line of the song also has a variation, i.e. 'ab jaam do to Khaali hii do' v/s Miir original 'ab do to jaam....'

Regrds,

Vijay
shagird
2014-08-25 06:47:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by shagird
http://youtu.be/ybo3dt6k2r8
Thanks Atif sahib for posting this very good song. I believe that the first and the third verses are by Miir in this rendition, the others by Saif-ud-diin Saif. The second line of the song also has a variation, i.e. 'ab jaam do to Khaali hii do' v/s Miir original 'ab do to jaam....'
ji Vijay sahib.
Mir kay ashaa'r (likhay huay) aur bahtar audio yahan per hai


Behtar audio/video

Post by v***@gmail.com
Regrds,
Vijay
v***@gmail.com
2014-08-25 14:39:32 UTC
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Post by shagird
ji Vijay sahib.
Mir kay ashaa'r (likhay huay) aur bahtar audio yahan per hai
http://youtu.be/63DDmdVu3s0
Thanks Atif sahib. This seems to clear up the 'hai' v/s 'haiN' discussion.

Regards,

Vijay
Babar Imam
2014-08-27 08:23:57 UTC
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Post by Raj Kumar
Post by v***@gmail.com
Post by v
but who is the author of the first couplet. i know that is a genuine one, the others might be fake.
zaahid sharaab piine de masjid men baiTh kar
ya voh jagah bata ki jahaaN p' Khuda na ho!
Obviously the Internet brigade who attribute every 'populist' she'r to >Ghalib, Iqbal, or as here, Faraaz, to embelish its significance further, has >replaced 'zaahid' with 'Ghalib'. I am none the wiser as to who the real author >is, but suffice it to say that it is likely not Mirza Ghalib!
***agarche Vijay saaHib ne is she'r ki saHeeH shakl pesh kar di hai, taaham is meN aek ma'amuuli sa naqs reh gayaa hai --- voh yeh k is ke duusre misr'e meN p' ki bajaaye par honaa chaahiye. vajah yeh k p' ka vazn aadhe syllable ka hai jab-k maqaam yahaaN puure syllable ka hai; hence, par --- not p'.
rahii baat is she'r ke Khaaliq ki to javaab Haazir hai --- Riaz Khairaabaadi.
Raj Kumar***
Raj Kumar sb, aadaab

Is sher ke khaaliq ke baare mein jaan'ne ki bohot zamaane se koshish kar raha tha.
"Zahid sharaab peene de masjid mein baith kar"

Abhi abhi Reyaz Khairabaadi ki kulliyat ulat raha tha. Radeef "na ho" aur "nahin" dono chhaan maare lekin ye sher kisi ghazal mein dhoondhe nahin milta.
Mere paas jo kulliyat hai woh 2007 ka edition hai (Farid Book Depot).

Kuchh log is ke khaliq Abdul Hameed "Adm" ko bhi bataate hain, lekin koi thos saboot ya daleel nahiN hai..

Agar aap is mein thodi aur rehnumaayi kar dein to bohot meherbaani hogi.

Bohot shukriya,
v
2014-09-01 00:42:52 UTC
Permalink
abhi abhi bhaaratiiyaa jnaanpiiTh dvaaraa shaayaa ek kitaab paDh rahaa thaa.

usme.n 'zaahid sharaab...' sher kaa Khaaliq Gaalib ko bataayaa gayaa hai.

i feel like dhritraashtra in jaane bhi do yaaro.

"mahabharat me.n jalaluddin akbar. this is too much. ye kyaa ho rahaa hai"
Raj Kumar
2014-09-01 23:07:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by v
abhi abhi bhaaratiiyaa jnaanpiiTh dvaaraa shaayaa ek kitaab paDh rahaa thaa.
usme.n 'zaahid sharaab...' sher kaa Khaaliq Gaalib ko bataayaa gayaa hai.
i feel like dhritraashtra in jaane bhi do yaaro.
"mahabharat me.n jalaluddin akbar. this is too much. ye kyaa ho rahaa hai"
***aur maiN ne abhi abhi internet par aek vaalihaana she'r paRhaa hai jise phir Ghaalib hi se mansuub kiyaa gayaa hai. lage haathoN, aap saaHibaan bhi is javaahar-paare se mustafeed hojiye; farmaate haiN k

umr bhar Ghaalib yihii ik bhuul (sii) kartaa rahaa
gard chehre par thi, voh aa'iina saa(f) kartaa rahaa!

kyaa baat hai chachaa Ghaalib kii --- vaare-nyaare jaayeN un ke! ;)

R.K.***
v***@gmail.com
2014-09-02 08:36:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by v
abhi abhi bhaaratiiyaa jnaanpiiTh dvaaraa shaayaa ek kitaab paDh rahaa thaa.
usme.n 'zaahid sharaab...' sher kaa Khaaliq Gaalib ko bataayaa gayaa hai.
i feel like dhritraashtra in jaane bhi do yaaro.
"mahabharat me.n jalaluddin akbar. this is too much. ye kyaa ho rahaa hai"
I have a book on the subject of 'Ghazal' by Chaanan Gobindpuri and in it, this she'r is attributed to Zauq! Now, as the refrain from that film goes, 'who you gonna call'! I think we need the help of someone like Balwinder sahib or Zafar sahib!

Vijay

Raj Kumar
2014-09-02 00:20:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Babar Imam
Raj Kumar sb, aadaab
Is sher ke khaaliq ke baare mein jaan'ne ki bohot zamaane se koshish kar raha tha.
"Zahid sharaab peene de masjid mein baith kar"
Abhi abhi Reyaz Khairabaadi ki kulliyat ulat raha tha. Radeef "na ho" aur "nahin"
dono chhaan maare lekin ye sher kisi ghazal mein dhoondhe nahin milta.
Mere paas jo kulliyat hai woh 2007 ka edition hai (Farid Book Depot).
------------

***Huzoor, aap ke paas kam-az-kam “kulliyaat-e-Riyaaz” to hai; mujh Ghareeb ke paas to sivaaye zehni yaad-daashtoN ke aur kuchh bhi naheeN hai. is liye, agar aap is she’r ko “kulliyaat-e-Riyaaz” meN naheeN paa sake to yeh she’r Ghaaliban un ka naheeN hai!

yeh alag baat k hamaare gharaane meN is she’r ko hamesha R.Kh. hi se mansuub kiyaa jaataa thaa!

kehne ka matlab yeh k is ‘jurm’ ke saHeeH ‘mujrim’ ki talaash fil-Haal jaarii rehni chaahiye!*** ;)

-------------
Post by Babar Imam
Kuchh log is ke khaliq Abdul Hameed "Adm" ko bhi bataate hain, lekin koi thos saboot ya daleel nahiN hai..
***Abdul Hameed Adam (not Adm) was quite capable of saying such a she’r but, to my knowledge, there is hardly any evidence to support that contention!***
Post by Babar Imam
Agar aap is mein thodi aur rehnumaayi kar dein to bohot meherbaani hogi.
***mujh Khaaksaar ki itni bisaat kahaaN, azeez-e-man, k maiN kisii saaHib-e-zauq ki rah-numaa’ii kar sakuuN --- haaN, agar aap gadle paani ko mazeed gadlaa dekhnaa chaahate haiN to Khaaksaar Haazir hai! ☺

kehne ka matlab yeh k ham ne (apne bachpan/laRakpan meN) jab bhi is she'r ko sunaa to is ka Khitaab “zaahid” se naheeN thaa, “vaa’iz” se thaa!!!

aap agar ThaNDe dil se socheN to masjid ke eihtemaam meN na to kisii zaahid ki auqaat kaar-farmaa hoti hai aur na hi kisi riNd ki --- agar auqaat kaar-farmaa hoti hai to vaa’iz ki jo k saari audience ko apni muTThii meN baaNdhe rakhta hai!

So, the correct she’r presumably is

VAA’IZ, sharaab peene de masjid meN baiTh kar
yaa voh jagah bataa k jahaaN par Khudaa na ho!

So, in addition to wondering about who the Khaaliq of this popular she’r is, I would like my ALUPer friends to ponder over as to whom this she’r is addressed --- to zaahid or to vaa’iz?

du’aa-go, Raj Kumar***
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