New year 2024

[B.G. M.]

اے نئے سال بتا تجھ میں نیا پن کیا ھے
ہر طرف خَلق نے کيوں شور مچا رکھا ہے

روشنی دن کی وہي تاروں بھري رات وہی
آج ہم کو نظر آتي ہے ہر ايک بات وہی

آسمان بدلا ہے افسوس، نا بدلی ہے زميں
ايک ہندسے کا بدلنا کوئي جدت تو نہيں

اگلے برسوں کی طرح ہوں گے قرينے تيرے
کسے معلوم نہيں بارہ مہينے تیرے

تيرا مَن دہر ميں کچھ کھوئے گا کچھ پائے گا
اپنی ميعاد بَسر کر کے چلا جائے گا

تو نيا ہے تو دکھا صبح نئي، شام نئی
ورنہ اِن آنکھوں نے ديکھے ہيں نئے سال کئی

بے سبب لوگ ديتے ہيں کيوں مبارک باديں
غالباً بھول گئے وقت کی کڑوي ياديں۔۔۔

#فی

[UVR]

Post by B.G. M.
اے نئے سال بتا تجھ میں نیا پن کیا ھے
ہر طرف خَلق نے کيوں شور مچا رکھا ہے
[....]
#فیض_احمد_فیض

janaab BGM saahib, aadaab. aap ki aur deegar tamaam ALUPers ki Khidmat meN ba'ad ek taveel muddat ke aadaab pesh kar rahaa hooN. aap sab ko Happy New Year. ummeed hai yeh nayaa saal insaan kii zaat ke liye Khush haali le ke aaye, aur duniyaa meN jahaaN kaheeN bhii log ek doosre se haiwaanoN kaa saa sulooq kar rahe haiN wahaaN amn-o-aashti bahaal kare.

itne barsoN ba'ad mere yahaaN waapas aane ki wajh k Google ke hukmraanoN kaa woh faisla hai jo unhoN ne USENET newsgroups (baa-shumool-e-ALUP) ke baare meN kiyaa hai. waise to aap sab hi ne Khabar paRhi hogi, magar jo ahbaab us se aagaah naheeN haiN, unki ittila' ke liye 'arz hai k Google ne kuchh yooN tay kiyaa hai, k --

"Effective February 24, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new conetnt from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of historical data will still be supported as it is done today."

ya'ani jo bhi ALUPers is waqt ba-zari'a-e-Google yahaaN posts karte aur paRhte aaye haiN un sab ko koi aur rasta iKhtiyaar karna paRega. is silsile meN chand soorateN saamne aati haiN, aap tamaam ahbaab se meraa sawaal hai k aap logoN ne is baare meN kuchh sochaa hai?

jo raste is moR se raste jaate haiN, mere Khayaal se kuchh yooN hai --

1.sab dostaan-e-ALUP, alt.language.urdu.poetry USENET newsgroup par hi post karte/paRhte raheN, aur iske liye koi aur USENET server aur client ist'emaal kareN. agar aap kaa yeh faisala hai, to Feb 24 ke ba'ad aap ne kisii server+client kaa soch rakha hai? agar haaN, to kaun se server/client kaa?

Advantage: the "home" (group) remains the same, a new "door" (new access method) has to be used.
Disadvantage: I don't know of any free alternatives to access USENET, but many ISPs do provide access, so you may already be paying for it and having access. Setting up your own newsgroups reader/poster software may be an easy task for some, and not so easy at all for others.

2. Google groups par koi nayaa maqaam aik naye group ki shakl meN qaa'im kiyaa jaaye -- yahaaN aane waale tamaam readers/posters/lurkers/... wahaaN kaa ruKh kareN. agar haaN to 15 saal qabl ek group Khaaksaar ne 2009 meN banaayaa thaa, shaayad isi din ke dhaRke se(!!!); chaheN to https://groups.google.com/g/alup par jaa kar subscribe kar leN.

Advantage: the familiar Google groups front end. Everyone posting here (on *this* ALUP) most likely already has an account using which they can subscribe and continue the discussions on *THAT* alup.
Disadvantage: who knows how long Google will let the fun continue?

3. Facebook, WhatsApp yaa aur kisi naye medium kaa ruKh kareN.
Facebook par bhi ek ALUP group hai jise aap https://www.facebook.com/groups/635636506554920/?ref=share_group_link par dekh sakte haiN (it has 43 members, is VERY low traffic; in fact, I don't recall seeing any posts/discussions in the last several months).

Advantage: take ALUP discussions into the 21st century. Most of us perhaps already use Facebook, WhatsApp etc.
Disadvantage: there is actually no way to do meaningful discussions on these media. I know, because I'm part of a few other groups (as I'm sure all of us are -- or a majority of us, at any rate) on both FB and WA. Still, the FB group is there already in case anyone wants to join.

aap logoN kaa kyaa Khayaal hai? Google to USENET alt.language.urdu.poetry ka "qatl" karega. badle meN aap kyaa karnaa pasand kareNge?

-UVR.

[Zoya]

Post by B.G. M.
اے نئے سال بتا تجھ میں نیا پن کیا ھے
ہر طرف خَلق نے کيوں شور مچا رکھا ہے
[....]
#فیض_احمد_فیض

Happy 2024 BGM sahib.

janaab BGM saahib, aadaab. aap ki aur deegar tamaam ALUPers ki Khidmat meN ba'ad ek taveel muddat ke aadaab pesh kar rahaa hooN. aap sab ko Happy New Year. ummeed hai yeh nayaa saal insaan kii zaat ke liye Khush haali le ke aaye, aur duniyaa meN jahaaN kaheeN bhii log ek doosre se haiwaanoN kaa saa sulooq kar rahe haiN wahaaN amn-o-aashti bahaal kare.

Amen.

aadaab UVR sahib. It is wonderful to see you back on Alup after a loooong gap. How I wish it were under different circumstances though!

itne barsoN ba'ad mere yahaaN waapas aane ki wajh k Google ke hukmraanoN kaa woh faisla hai jo unhoN ne USENET newsgroups (baa-shumool-e-ALUP) ke baare meN kiyaa hai. waise to aap sab hi ne Khabar paRhi hogi, magar jo ahbaab us se aagaah naheeN haiN, unki ittila' ke liye 'arz hai k Google ne kuchh yooN tay kiyaa hai, k --
"Effective February 24, 2024, Google Groups will no longer support new Usenet content. Posting and subscribing will be disallowed, and new conetnt from Usenet peers will not appear. Viewing and searching of historical data will still be supported as it is done today."

I have been really sad since I first read this announcement. One she'r that immediately came to my mind is by my favorite poet, Nasir Kazmi:

kyuuN na rouuN tirii judaii meN
din guzaare haiN tere paas bahut :(

I have practically spent all of my adult life on Alup, have learned so much from the resident experts, made life long friends and had a lot of fun along the way. This is like home turf for me and the mere fact that Alup exists, and I can visit here anytime has always been reassuring. But eventually all good things must come to an end.

ya'ani jo bhi ALUPers is waqt ba-zari'a-e-Google yahaaN posts karte aur paRhte aaye haiN un sab ko koi aur rasta iKhtiyaar karna paRega. is silsile meN chand soorateN saamne aati haiN, aap tamaam ahbaab se meraa sawaal hai k aap logoN ne is baare meN kuchh sochaa hai?

I have been preparing myself for the impending gloom and doom and am really grateful that you have listed some options to keep the group alive. I personally am not technically savvy enough to suggest any alternate avenues.

jo raste is moR se raste jaate haiN, mere Khayaal se kuchh yooN hai --
1.sab dostaan-e-ALUP, alt.language.urdu.poetry USENET newsgroup par hi post karte/paRhte raheN, aur iske liye koi aur USENET server aur client ist'emaal kareN. agar aap kaa yeh faisala hai, to Feb 24 ke ba'ad aap ne kisii server+client kaa soch rakha hai? agar haaN, to kaun se server/client kaa?
Advantage: the "home" (group) remains the same, a new "door" (new access method) has to be used.
Disadvantage: I don't know of any free alternatives to access USENET, but many ISPs do provide access, so you may already be paying for it and having access. Setting up your own newsgroups reader/poster software may be an easy task for some, and not so easy at all for others.

* Is Option 1 kind of like 'mehfil-e-sukhan' that our friend Shoaib Tanvir sahib had created a while back? It did great for a few years, but ST could not keep up with the commitment required to run such a group. It takes up lot of time, energy, and technical know-how. I am not sure who amongst us can take on a task like that.

2. Google groups par koi nayaa maqaam aik naye group ki shakl meN qaa'im kiyaa jaaye -- yahaaN aane waale tamaam readers/posters/lurkers/... wahaaN kaa ruKh kareN. agar haaN to 15 saal qabl ek group Khaaksaar ne 2009 meN banaayaa thaa, shaayad isi din ke dhaRke se(!!!); chaheN to https://groups.google.com/g/alup par jaa kar subscribe kar leN.
Advantage: the familiar Google groups front end. Everyone posting here (on *this* ALUP) most likely already has an account using which they can subscribe and continue the discussions on *THAT* alup.
Disadvantage: who knows how long Google will let the fun continue?

* I really like Option 2. As you mention, this group already exists, we just have to detour to it.
I am unable to open the link though, get an error message. Will you please look into it and guide me?

3. Facebook, WhatsApp yaa aur kisi naye medium kaa ruKh kareN.
Facebook par bhi ek ALUP group hai jise aap https://www.facebook.com/groups/635636506554920/?ref=share_group_link par dekh sakte haiN (it has 43 members, is VERY low traffic; in fact, I don't recall seeing any posts/discussions in the last several months).
Advantage: take ALUP discussions into the 21st century. Most of us perhaps already use Facebook, WhatsApp etc.
Disadvantage: there is actually no way to do meaningful discussions on these media. I know, because I'm part of a few other groups (as I'm sure all of us are -- or a majority of us, at any rate) on both FB and WA. Still, the FB group is there already in case anyone wants to join.

* Personally, I have never been much of a FB fan and am not active on it. Don't have the patience to deal with group messages, mostly of no interest to me me
usually self indulgences by individuals. Also, I liked the relative anonymity that Usenet groups provided.
However, I will consider Option 3 as a last resort. After all, this FB group already exists and we know if the posts mirror Alup, the quality will be maintained.

aap logoN kaa kyaa Khayaal hai? Google to USENET alt.language.urdu.poetry ka "qatl" karega. badle meN aap kyaa karnaa pasand kareNge?
-UVR.

Let us what the other members say.

Thanks UVR sahib, for trying to put a ventilator on Alup's deathbed.

It is not goodbye friends, not just yet.

__________Zoya

[Naseer]

Hello UVR Sahib,
I wasn't able to open the second groups link as well. I'm glad that we can at least have the search ability in ALUP still alive! There's so much content here.
I'm already a member of FB group, but that's just unreliable, the posts don't normally appear as you would want and FB is on the decline as a social media platform as well.
Discord is another option. We can also create a discord server, everybody can join it and start posting there as well. Different channels can be created, thats' a great way to have the community alive. People will need a discord app on their phone or discord client on their desktops, it can also be used on the web (https://discord.com/). It is likely that this is one of the best ways today to create a community. Discord servers can be moderated easily, we can have admins, etc.
Please do check the settings on your google group "alup", might be set to private only.
Regards,
Amit Malhotra

UVR SaaHib, aadaab.
I am afraid I wasn't able to open the link to your Option 2. I don't know if others have faced the same difficulty.
https://groups.google.com/g/alup
Naseer

Amit SaaHib, aadaab.

I hope UVR SaaHib sees these posts.

As you know I only joined FB a day ago. I would like to ask you the following questions, if I may and one or two observations as well.

1. I am surprised to see that in its 9 year life, it only has 44 members to date. Having said this, I am not sure if this ALUP in its almost 24 year life period had many more participants.

2. Why is FB unreliable and what is it about the appearance of the posts that is not to your liking?

3. What more can Discord offer which FB ALUP doesn't?

4. FB ALUP must feel quite settled with most if not all the arising issues ironed out. 44 people already participate in it. Shifting these people to yet another ALUP may be asking too much of them and is likely to divide and hence weaken the overall purpose of enjoying Urdu poetry. I am fully aware this current ALUP has not been all that active for some time now but this is normal. People move on, leave or even pass away.

5. I personally would like to support UVR SaaHib's ALUP based on my obsevations in 4. Currently, if I am not mistaken, the following people from this ALUP are members of FB ALUP. The date next to the name is the date when they joined this group.

a) Ali Minai 05/09/1994

b) U V Ravindra 29/05/1996

c) Rajiv Chakravarti 16/12/1997

d) Padmanabhan Srinagesh 01/01/1998

e) Amit Malhotra 21/12/1999 (Your good self)

f) Irfan Abid July 2001

g) Sarwar Alam Raz Oct 2001

i) v (Ravi Sahib) Feb 2006 (? I think he is a member. I might be wrong)

j) Asad ur Rahman Kidwai Oct 2007

k) Dinesh Shinnoy (He was mentioned in Ali Minai's post on 28/06/1999

So, this is a fair proprtion of "old hands" from this ALUP who have migrated over to that ALUP. It is possible that the following may join FB ALUP

Raj Kumar Pathria (Qais) 18/06/1998

Zoya SaaHibah Dec 2000

All these people, including your worth self, can bring a wealth of knowledge and experience to the FB ALUP Group. These are just might thoughts. You and others may disagree.

Naseer

[Naseer]

Hello UVR Sahib,
I wasn't able to open the second groups link as well. I'm glad that we can at least have the search ability in ALUP still alive! There's so much content here.
I'm already a member of FB group, but that's just unreliable, the posts don't normally appear as you would want and FB is on the decline as a social media platform as well.
Discord is another option. We can also create a discord server, everybody can join it and start posting there as well. Different channels can be created, thats' a great way to have the community alive. People will need a discord app on their phone or discord client on their desktops, it can also be used on the web (https://discord.com/). It is likely that this is one of the best ways today to create a community. Discord servers can be moderated easily, we can have admins, etc.
Please do check the settings on your google group "alup", might be set to private only.
Regards,
Amit Malhotra

UVR SaaHib, aadaab.
I am afraid I wasn't able to open the link to your Option 2. I don't know if others have faced the same difficulty.
https://groups.google.com/g/alup
Naseer

Amit SaaHib, aadaab.

I hope UVR SaaHib sees these posts.

As you know I only joined FB a day ago. I would like to ask you the following questions, if I may and one or two observations as well.

1. I am surprised to see that in its 9 year life, it only has 44 members to date. Having said this, I am not sure if this ALUP in its almost 24 year life period had many more participants.

2. Why is FB unreliable and what is it about the appearance of the posts that is not to your liking?

3. What more can Discord offer which FB ALUP doesn't?

4. FB ALUP must feel quite settled with most if not all the arising issues ironed out. 44 people already participate in it. Shifting these people to yet another ALUP may be asking too much of them and is likely to divide and hence weaken the overall purpose of enjoying Urdu poetry. I am fully aware this current ALUP has not been all that active for some time now but this is normal. People move on, leave or even pass away.

5. I personally would like to support UVR SaaHib's ALUP based on my obsevations in 4. Currently, if I am not mistaken, the following people from this ALUP are members of FB ALUP. The date next to the name is the date when they joined this group.

a) Ali Minai 05/09/1994

b) U V Ravindra 29/05/1996

c) Rajiv Chakravarti 16/12/1997

d) Padmanabhan Srinagesh 01/01/1998

e) Amit Malhotra 21/12/1999 (Your good self)

f) Irfan Abid July 2001

g) Sarwar Alam Raz Oct 2001

i) v (Ravi Sahib) Feb 2006 (? I think he is a member. I might be wrong)

j) Asad ur Rahman Kidwai Oct 2007

k) Dinesh Shinnoy (He was mentioned in Ali Minai's post on 28/06/1999)

So, this is a fair proprtion of "old hands" from this ALUP who have migrated over to that ALUP. It is possible that the following may join FB ALUP

Raj Kumar Pathria (Qais) 18/06/1998

Zoya SaaHibah Dec 2000

All these people, including your worthy self, can bring a wealth of knowledge and experience to the FB ALUP Group. These are just my thoughts. You and others may disagree.

Naseer

[Naseer]

I went ahead and setup a small server / community on Discord today. It's setup to be more like a forum.
For those who don't know discord, it's a chat application that allows you to make communities. You will need to download a discord client (phone, laptop/desktop) or just use the discord web client to make an account and then use this link to join the community: https://discord.gg/GNRgXPxqsW

Discord is another option. We can also create a discord server, everybody can join it and start posting there as well. Different channels can be created, thats' a great way to have the community alive. People will need a discord app on their phone or discord client on their desktops, it can also be used on the web (https://discord.com/). It is likely that this is one of the best ways today to create a community. Discord servers can be moderated easily, we can have admins, etc.

Amit SaaHib, aadaab.

I hope UVR SaaHib sees these posts.

As you know I only joined FB a day ago. I would like to ask you the following questions, if I may and one or two observations as well.

1. I am surprised to see that in its 9 year life, it only has 44 members to date. Having said this, I am not sure if this ALUP in its almost 30 year life period had many more participants.

2. Why is FB unreliable and what is it about the appearance of the posts that is not to your liking?

3. What more can Discord offer which FB ALUP doesn't?

4. FB ALUP must feel quite settled with most if not all the arising issues ironed out. 44 people already participate in it. Shifting these people to yet another ALUP may be asking too much of them and is likely to divide and hence weaken the overall purpose of enjoying Urdu poetry. I am fully aware this current ALUP has not been all that active for some time now but this is normal. People move on, leave or even pass away.

5. I personally would like to support UVR SaaHib's ALUP based on my obsevations in 4. Currently, if I am not mistaken, the following people from this ALUP are members of FB ALUP. The date next to the name is the date when they joined this group.

a) Ali Minai 05/09/1994

b) U V Ravindra 29/05/1996

c) Rajiv Chakravarti 16/12/1997

d) Padmanabhan Srinagesh 01/01/1998

e) Amit Malhotra 21/12/1999 (Your good self)

f) Irfan Abid July 2001

g) Sarwar Alam Raz Oct 2001

i) v (Ravi Sahib) Feb 2006 (? I think he is a member. I might be wrong)

j) Asad ur Rahman Kidwai Oct 2007

k) Dinesh Shinnoy (He was mentioned in Ali Minai's post on 28/06/1999)

So, this is a fair proprtion of "old hands" from this ALUP who have migrated over to that ALUP. It is possible that the following may join FB ALUP

Raj Kumar Pathria (Qais) 18/06/1998

Zoya SaaHibah Dec 2000

All these people, including your worthy self, can bring a wealth of knowledge and experience to the FB ALUP Group. These are just my thoughts. You and others may disagree.

Naseer

[Amit Malhotra]

Naseer sahib aadab!,

Post by Naseer
1. I am surprised to see that in its 9 year life, it only has 44 members to date. Having said this, I am not sure if this ALUP in its almost 30 year life period had many more participants.
2. Why is FB unreliable and what is it about the appearance of the posts that is not to your liking?

FB doesn't surface posts on a person's profile properly (unless you visit the community page directly all the time, which I normally don't, but then again, I'm not a big facebook user also). It could also be that because I don't use facebook regularly, I don't see the posts properly. Could simply be my personal experience with facebook, but mixed with ads, the posts showing on my timeline sometimes and not following proper timelines, it's not my favourite community application /platform.

Post by Naseer
3. What more can Discord offer which FB ALUP doesn't?

FB ALUP should be adequate for simple conversation, but not everybody wants to be on a social media platform. Discord is really meant to manage/moderate/create communities, offers a lot more in terms of functionality, extensibility, with forum like posting, threading, text chat as well as voice chat. I like discord because it's focused on communities rather than a social media platform providing community to promote usage. You join focused groups in discord that allow you to talk with like-minded people without being distracted. It's similar to the forums ST sahib had setup, the idea is same, it's a platform enabling communities. As far as usage is concerned, now that I have set it up, it's there to be used, tried out, and available as an alternative to Facebook.

Post by Naseer
4. FB ALUP must feel quite settled with most if not all the arising issues ironed out. 44 people already participate in it. Shifting these people to yet another ALUP may be asking too much of them and is likely to divide and hence weaken the overall purpose of enjoying Urdu poetry. I am fully aware this current ALUP has not been all that active for some time now but this is normal. People move on, leave or even pass away.

FB ALUP is definitely a great option. 44 people who are part of the group doesn't mean they participate in it. The posting mechanism is simpler to use, you post, there are replies on the post that can be nested to a certain level and I think with your arrival in the group, first time I have seen posts there in a few years. Ease of use might be useful, people who are new to facebook will be new to any alternative means that will be available as google stops the support for usenet grp posts.

Post by Naseer
5. I personally would like to support UVR SaaHib's ALUP based on my obsevations in 4. Currently, if I am not mistaken, the following people from this ALUP are members of FB ALUP. The date next to the name is the date when they joined this group.

100%, I'm with you, in fact I have been there for a while anyway. In fact, I lurk everywhere without actively participating, so not much change for me. I just presented another option and that discord server will keep running if people ever feel like joining it and finding out how it works.

Post by Naseer
All these people, including your worthy self, can bring a wealth of knowledge and experience to the FB ALUP Group. These are just my thoughts. You and others may disagree.

I hope all of the ALUPers keep participating somewhere, if it's not here and it's on facebook, then that's where it is. :-)

Warm Regards,

Amit Malhotra

[Amit Malhotra]

I've read somewhere that when a person is dying, just before death, s/he begins to show signs of recovery. The increase in activity in ALUP seems to point towards the truth behind this phenomenon! :-) (I know it is sad that this ALUP will be no more after 22/02/2024 but "Out of the ashes grow the roses of success"! Naseer

I disagree that ALUP is dying or will be no more. While the name ALUP (alt.language.urdu.poetry) comes from usenet, ALUP is not the medium that was used for people to talk about this amazing art, but it's the people that made up that usenet community and then the google group community. Changing the medium doesn't mean ALUP will be no more :-) - finding a new "aDDaa", that's it, and a change in scenery might add some life to the group as well!

Warm Regards

Amit Malhotra

[Shoaib Tanvir]

I disagree that ALUP is dying or will be no more. While the name ALUP (alt.language.urdu.poetry) comes from usenet, ALUP is not the medium that was used for people to talk about this amazing art, but it's the people that made up that usenet community and then the google group community. Changing the medium doesn't mean ALUP will be no more :-) - finding a new "aDDaa", that's it, and a change in scenery might add some life to the group as well!
Warm Regards
Amit Malhotra

Very well put Amit sahib. As the British Sheikh said, what's in a name?

The body may weaken, get disease, even die but the soul lives on. And sometimes the patient undergoes rejuvenation defying the dark apprehensions.

With best regards,

Shoaib Tanvir
---
Do. Or do not. There is no try.

[Zoya]

Hello dear friends,

Choices! I like that, feel much better already, the gloom is lifting. Thank you gentlemen. :-)

Amit, I have already joined the 'Discord Alup'. I am new to that format, may get into some initiation hiccups, hopefully will be able to figure out the mechanics soon.

UVR sahib, I have sent a request to join the 'other' Google Alup, Option 2 in your initial post in this thread. I can view it already, will post there once an official member.

I am planning to join the FB Alup also. I had created an FB account a while back, never used it. I was trying to reactivate it yesterday, and guess what. My niece sent me a text today asking if I had sent her a friend request on FB! I was like 'what'??? Of course I did not! Maybe my never used FB account has been compromised? I have to figure out what is going on before doing anything further.

Thanks to the combined efforts of Alup fans, it seems to be getting a new lease of life. Otherwise, in my mind I could hear Alup singing this Qateel Shifai she'r:

"aakhrii hichkii tire zaanuuN pe aaye
maut bhii maiN sha'iraanaa chaahtaa huuN!"

_________Zoya

P.S. In case anyone is wondering why I say Alup and not ALUP, it is because I have been using it as a verb also. I mean, all of us have been 'aluping' for a long while now. If Google and Xerox can be verbs, why not our friend Alup? Agree? :)

[Naseer]

Post by Zoya
Hello dear friends,
Choices! I like that, feel much better already, the gloom is lifting. Thank you gentlemen. :-)
Amit, I have already joined the 'Discord Alup'. I am new to that format, may get into some initiation hiccups, hopefully will be able to figure out the mechanics soon.
UVR sahib, I have sent a request to join the 'other' Google Alup, Option 2 in your initial post in this thread. I can view it already, will post there once an official member.
I am planning to join the FB Alup also. I had created an FB account a while back, never used it. I was trying to reactivate it yesterday, and guess what. My niece sent me a text today asking if I had sent her a friend request on FB! I was like 'what'??? Of course I did not! Maybe my never used FB account has been compromised? I have to figure out what is going on before doing anything further.
"aakhrii hichkii tire zaanuuN pe aaye
maut bhii maiN sha'iraanaa chaahtaa huuN!"
_________Zoya
P.S. In case anyone is wondering why I say Alup and not ALUP, it is because I have been using it as a verb also. I mean, all of us have been 'aluping' for a long while now. If Google and Xerox can be verbs, why not our friend Alup? Agree? :)

Zoya SaaHibah, aadaab.

Like you, I've also joined Discord and Option 2. On Option 2, I've posted one post post in response to Tanvir Shuaib SaaHib but I don't relly know where I am in Discord. As for FB ALUP, I became a member of FB fairly recently and joined my school FB, aiming to locate some old friends and "parda-nishiiN" :-) My suggestion would be that you find out which person has sent a friend request to your niece. Once you see the profile of that person you will know if it is you or not. If it is you and the account has been compromised, you should be able to delete that account and start a new one. May be other friends can add to what I've said. If you are in touch with Raj Kumar SaaHib, please twist his arm (very gently) and maneuver him towards these new possibilities. Best Regards, Naseer

[Naseer]

Post by Zoya
Hello dear friends,
"aakhrii hichkii tire zaanuuN pe aaye
maut bhii maiN sha'iraanaa chaahtaa huuN!"
_________Zoya

"zaanuu", Zoya SaaHibah. But if you have a cold, then please ignore this message. :-)

Naseer

[Zoya]

Post by Naseer
"zaanuu", Zoya SaaHibah. But if you have a cold, then please ignore this message. :-)
Naseer

Naseer sahib, thanks for pointing out this error. I could blame it on the first hard freeze of the season that we are dealing with down here this week, but I will own this. I remember this ghazal in Jagjit Singh's voice and have always been unsure of the nuun ghuna at the end. In my defense, I will say that last night right before posting, I double checked the she'r in Rekhta exactly for this reason. And they have a nuun ghuna! Dah!!
Not an excuse for me though. This is one of the reasons I love Alup so much, no errors are allowed here, not in spelling, grammar, or meter. None. All this has contributed so much over the years towards my growth in the field of Urdu poetry.

Thanks again.

A perpetual student,
_________Zoya

[Naseer]

Post by Zoya

Post by Naseer
"zaanuu", Zoya SaaHibah. But if you have a cold, then please ignore this message. :-)
Naseer

Naseer sahib, thanks for pointing out this error. I could blame it on the first hard freeze of the season that we are dealing with down here this week, but I will own this. I remember this ghazal in Jagjit Singh's voice and have always been unsure of the nuun ghuna at the end. In my defense, I will say that last night right before posting, I double checked the she'r in Rekhta exactly for this reason. And they have a nuun ghuna! Dah!!
Not an excuse for me though. This is one of the reasons I love Alup so much, no errors are allowed here, not in spelling, grammar, or meter. None. All this has contributed so much over the years towards my growth in the field of Urdu poetry.
Thanks again.
A perpetual student,
_________Zoya

Zoya SaaHibah aadaab. I do not find Rekhta a reliable source. Even with this word, for the same shi3r, it has both "zaanuu" and "zaanuuN". آخری ہچکی ترے زانو پہ آئے

موت بھی میں شاعرانہ چاہتا ہوں آخری ہچکی ترے زانوں پہ آئے

موت بھی میں شاعرانہ چاہتا ہوں

[Zoya]

Post by Naseer
Zoya SaaHibah aadaab. I do not find Rekhta a reliable source. Even with this word, for the same shi3r, it has both "zaanuu" and "zaanuuN".

Oh dear. In future I should double-double check within Rekhta, or perhaps stick with more reliable sources, e.g. Platts.

[Shoaib Tanvir]

Post by Zoya
Oh dear. In future I should double-double check within Rekhta, or perhaps stick with more reliable sources, e.g. Platts.

Zoya sahiba, or more accurately, saahibah, you must exercise extreme precision and caution when posting here. I suggest you use your research skills before composing a note and then spend time to make sure it is all good and valid.

[Zoya]

Post by Shoaib Tanvir

Post by Zoya
Oh dear. In future I should double-double check within Rekhta, or perhaps stick with more reliable sources, e.g. Platts.

Zoya sahiba, or more accurately, saahibah, you must exercise extreme precision and caution when posting here. I suggest you use your research skills before composing a note and then spend time to make sure it is all good and valid.

Oh dear dear!! You too?? :)

But I already work so hard to proof read my posts. I'm telling you, if I weren't so 'seasoned', you guys would scare me off this site. But I'm not going anywhere, or better still I'm going where y'all are going! :-))

________Zoya

[Naseer]

Post by Zoya

Post by Shoaib Tanvir

Post by Zoya
Oh dear. In future I should double-double check within Rekhta, or perhaps stick with more reliable sources, e.g. Platts.

Zoya sahiba, or more accurately, saahibah, you must exercise extreme precision and caution when posting here. I suggest you use your research skills before composing a note and then spend time to make sure it is all good and valid.

Oh dear dear!! You too?? :)
But I already work so hard to proof read my posts. I'm telling you, if I weren't so 'seasoned', you guys would scare me off this site. But I'm not going anywhere, or better still I'm going where y'all are going! :-))
________Zoya

Zoya SaaHibah, aadaab.

I suspect Shu3aib SaaHib is being a touch sarcastic, if I am not mistaken. You appear to be already aware of this. Naseer

[Shoaib Tanvir]

Post by Naseer

Post by Zoya

Post by Shoaib Tanvir

Post by Zoya
Oh dear. In future I should double-double check within Rekhta, or perhaps stick with more reliable sources, e.g. Platts.

Zoya sahiba, or more accurately, saahibah, you must exercise extreme precision and caution when posting here. I suggest you use your research skills before composing a note and then spend time to make sure it is all good and valid.

Oh dear dear!! You too?? :)
But I already work so hard to proof read my posts. I'm telling you, if I weren't so 'seasoned', you guys would scare me off this site. But I'm not going anywhere, or better still I'm going where y'all are going! :-))
________Zoya

Zoya SaaHibah, aadaab.
I suspect Shu3aib SaaHib is being a touch sarcastic, if I am not mistaken. You appear to be already aware of this. Naseer

Not sarcastic. I wouldn't dare! I am just being playful. :)

With best regards,

Shoaib Tanvir
---
Do. Or do not. There is no try.

[Zoya]

Post by Shoaib Tanvir
Not sarcastic. I wouldn't dare! I am just being playful. :)
Shoaib Tanvir

Yup. Not sarcastic. Not with me. Never.
But......... :-))

[Amit Malhotra]

Post by Zoya
But I already work so hard to proof read my posts. I'm telling you, if I weren't so 'seasoned', you guys would scare me off this site. But I'm not going anywhere, or better still I'm going where y'all are going! :-))

aapke "I'm not going anywhere" se ek sh'er yaad aa gaya jo kal hi paDha tha:

hui us gali meiN faziihat bahut
magar maiN vahaaN se Talaa hi nahiiN. - JE

[Zoya]

Post by Amit Malhotra
hui us gali meiN faziihat bahut
magar maiN vahaaN se Talaa hi nahiiN. - JE

Nice! My most obvious response to this would be Daagh's oft-quoted "aap to jam jaate haiN".
But right now I'm going with another JE she'r that I have been thinking about for the last few days and was planning to post in 'aaj kaa she'r' thread, maybe I'll do that too. But here and now:

hai bikharne to yeh mehfil-e-rang-buu, tum kahaaN jaayoge ham kahaaN jaayeNge
har taraf ho rahii hai yahii guftguu, tum kahaaN jaayoge ham kahaaN jaayeNge

Wow! Isn't this a perfect fit in the context of this thread?

__________Zoya

[Zoya]

Friends,

I have a suggestion. Since this thread is already getting quite busy, after this google group actually goes defunct, it may not be easy for currently inactive old members or potential new members to find out our new address(es).

Once the dust settles down, will one of you please create a new thread, with an appropriate title, listing the three active options that we seem to have agreed on. So, basically a summarized list of the new sites with embedded links to access them. The future visitors will then be able to find us easily on the alternate sites where we might be hanging out.

I guess I could assign this task to myself, but I believe UVR/Amit/ Naseer sahibaan will be able to do a better job with it.

Meantime, let us continue in the thread. Such fun! :-))

Thank you.

________Zoya

[UVR]

Post by Zoya
Friends,
I have a suggestion. Since this thread is already getting quite busy, after this google group actually goes defunct, it may not be easy for currently inactive old members or potential new members to find out our new address(es).
Once the dust settles down, will one of you please create a new thread, with an appropriate title, listing the three active options that we seem to have agreed on. So, basically a summarized list of the new sites with embedded links to access them. The future visitors will then be able to find us easily on the alternate sites where we might be hanging out.
I guess I could assign this task to myself, but I believe UVR/Amit/ Naseer sahibaan will be able to do a better job with it.
Meantime, let us continue in the thread. Such fun! :-))
Thank you.
________Zoya

It's a good idea to keep posting the locations of the proposed alternate digs frequently -- I will do so on Sundays until Feb 18, and then on Feb 19, 20 and 21. Unless, of course, by then a clear "winner" has emerged amongst the options before then, in which case I will only post about that one option. There's no wisdom, is there, in telling someone they can have "fries, chips, or fruit" when they've already chosen the fruit option!

-UVR.

[Naseer]

Post by Zoya
Friends,
I have a suggestion. Since this thread is already getting quite busy, after this google group actually goes defunct, it may not be easy for currently inactive old members or potential new members to find out our new address(es).
Once the dust settles down, will one of you please create a new thread, with an appropriate title, listing the three active options that we seem to have agreed on. So, basically a summarized list of the new sites with embedded links to access them. The future visitors will then be able to find us easily on the alternate sites where we might be hanging out.
I guess I could assign this task to myself, but I believe UVR/Amit/ Naseer sahibaan will be able to do a better job with it.
Meantime, let us continue in the thread. Such fun! :-))
Thank you.
________Zoya

Zoya SaaHib, aadaab.

I have started a new thread, as per your suggestion.

Naseer

[Zoya]

Post by Naseer
Zoya SaaHib, aadaab.
I have started a new thread, as per your suggestion.
Naseer

aadaab Naseer sahib,

Thank you.

As UVR sahib mentioned earlier in this thread, he is going to post weekly reminders about the alternate site(s) as we get closer to the move out date.

I have registered under all three: the 'other' google Alup, FB Alup and Discord Alup, and have started posting some messages on all of them. Personally, I can live with any of the three options, whatever most of the active members choose is fine with me. I am just grateful that it is not the end of an era, that would have made me very sad.

Meantime, let us cherish this space while it lasts.

huuN is kuuche ke har zarre se aagah
yahaaN maiN muddatoN aayaa gayaa huuN!

_________Zoya

[Naseer]

Post by Zoya

Post by Naseer
Zoya SaaHib, aadaab.
I have started a new thread, as per your suggestion.
Naseer

aadaab Naseer sahib,
Thank you.
As UVR sahib mentioned earlier in this thread, he is going to post weekly reminders about the alternate site(s) as we get closer to the move out date.
I have registered under all three: the 'other' google Alup, FB Alup and Discord Alup, and have started posting some messages on all of them. Personally, I can live with any of the three options, whatever most of the active members choose is fine with me. I am just grateful that it is not the end of an era, that would have made me very sad.
Meantime, let us cherish this space while it lasts.
huuN is kuuche ke har zarre se aagah
yahaaN maiN muddatoN aayaa gayaa huuN!
_________Zoya

Thank you Zoya SaaHibah. I must have missed UVR SaaHib's comment.
The shi3r you have quoted is:
huuN us kuuche ke har zarre se vaaqif
udhar muddatoN aayaa gayaa guuN
Shad Azimabadi

Naseer

[Zoya]

Post by Naseer
huuN us kuuche ke har zarre se vaaqif
udhar muddatoN aayaa gayaa guuN

Naseer sahib, I remember this she'r from my childhood, a ghazal singer singing 'khilone de ke behlaayaa gayaa huuN' on AIR Urdu service, my dream radio station. I do not have Shaad Azeemabadi kuliyaat to double check, but I am pretty sure I always heard 'aagah'. However, could be 'vaaqif , originally or in a modified version. Either one fits. And is/us is negotiable.

But more importantly, the second misra as you have written is out of meter. I think we should be just as careful with vazn/bahr as with other details. Yes? :)

Post by Naseer
Shad Azimabadi
Naseer

[Naseer]

Post by Zoya

Post by Naseer
huuN us kuuche ke har zarre se vaaqif
udhar muddatoN aayaa gayaa guuN

Naseer sahib, I remember this she'r from my childhood, a ghazal singer singing 'khilone de ke behlaayaa gayaa huuN' on AIR Urdu service, my dream radio station. I do not have Shaad Azeemabadi kuliyaat to double check, but I am pretty sure I always heard 'aagah'. However, could be 'vaaqif , originally or in a modified version. Either one fits. And is/us is negotiable.
But more importantly, the second misra as you have written is out of meter. I think we should be just as careful with vazn/bahr as with other details. Yes? :)

Post by Naseer
Shad Azimabadi
Naseer

Zoya SaaHibah aadaab.
You are right vazn is indeed important but I will have to confess to complete ignorance of this. Whether you accept this as a valid explanation, that is another matter. Yes, aagaah and vaaqif are possibilities but if we have "udhar" in the second misra3, we must have "us" in the first. "muddatoN" has an alternative "3umr-bhar". The shi3r I have quoted is as per Shaad Azimabadi's diivaan published in 1975 by Bihar Urdu Academy. (By the way, one of the reasonf for the misquote is that for some reason I can only see part of what I am typing. Anyway, here is the full shi3r with "se" inserted to balance the "weight". huuN us kuuche ke har zarre se vaaqif
udhar se muddatoN aayaa gayaa huuN
Naseer

[Zoya]

Post by Naseer
Zoya SaaHibah aadaab.
You are right vazn is indeed important but I will have to confess to complete ignorance of this. Whether you accept this as a valid explanation, that is another matter.

aadaab Naseer sahib,

Of course, I accept it. Just as I accept my own and other members' occasional transliteration 'errors'. :)

Yes, aagaah and vaaqif are possibilities but if we have "udhar" in the second misra3, we must have "us" in the first.

That goes without saying, is/idhar, us/udhar. Basic. Period.

I think the i/u confusion arises primarily because of the common practice of omitting zer/zabar etc in printed Urdu. I believe this has been previously discussed in detail on Alup. In prose or even in nazms, it should be fairly easy to decide whether it is i or u. However, it is a bigger issue in stand alone asha'ar which would make perfect sense either way. I personally encountered this recently while posting the Majaaz she'r "us mehfil-e-kaif-o-masti meN......." in "aaj kaa she'r" thread. Had to pause, think, and confirm.

"muddatoN" has an alternative "3umr-bhar".

Yes, that would fit. mud-dat-oN as 2-2-1, and um-r-bha-r broken as 2-(1-1)-1 will work here.

he shi3r I have quoted is as per Shaad Azimabadi's diivaan published in 1975 by Bihar Urdu Academy.

That is an authentic source. I concede to 'vaaqif'.

(By the way, one of the reasonf for the misquote is that for some reason I can only see part of what I am typing. Anyway, here is the full shi3r with "se" inserted to balance the "weight". huuN us kuuche ke har zarre se vaaqif

Post by Naseer
udhar se muddatoN aayaa gayaa huuN

I have encountered the same issue while typing on Alup recently. For longer posts, I sometimes type in word now, and then copy/paste. Perhaps these problems are due to Alup support being phased out before the final nail.

Post by Naseer
Naseer

___________Zoya

[UVR]

Post by Zoya
Hello dear friends,
Choices! I like that, feel much better already, the gloom is lifting. Thank you gentlemen. :-)
Amit, I have already joined the 'Discord Alup'. I am new to that format, may get into some initiation hiccups, hopefully will be able to figure out the mechanics soon.
UVR sahib, I have sent a request to join the 'other' Google Alup, Option 2 in your initial post in this thread. I can view it already, will post there once an official member.
I am planning to join the FB Alup also. I had created an FB account a while back, never used it. I was trying to reactivate it yesterday, and guess what. My niece sent me a text today asking if I had sent her a friend request on FB! I was like 'what'??? Of course I did not! Maybe my never used FB account has been compromised? I have to figure out what is going on before doing anything further.
"aakhrii hichkii tire zaanuuN pe aaye
maut bhii maiN sha'iraanaa chaahtaa huuN!"
_________Zoya
P.S. In case anyone is wondering why I say Alup and not ALUP, it is because I have been using it as a verb also. I mean, all of us have been 'aluping' for a long while now. If Google and Xerox can be verbs, why not our friend Alup? Agree? :)

I do hope you are able to figure out the deal with your unexpected "friending" of your niece and can also join us over on the FB ALUP. There are a few members there already, as Naseer saahib posted the other day. (Is it possible that in the course of your reactivation attempts, once you had gained access to your then dormant account, you had visited her profile and inadvertently clicked on the bright blue "Add friend" button? You can confirm whether this is what happened: go back to your account and visit her profile again, and you should be presented with a bright blue "Cancel request" button this time.)

-UVR.

[Zoya]

I do hope you are able to figure out the deal with your unexpected "friending" of your niece and can also join us over on the FB ALUP. There are a few members there already, as Naseer saahib posted the other day. (Is it possible that in the course of your reactivation attempts, once you had gained access to your then dormant account, you had visited her profile and inadvertently clicked on the bright blue "Add friend" button? You can confirm whether this is what happened: go back to your account and visit her profile again, and you should be presented with a bright blue "Cancel request" button this time.)
-UVR.

Thanks UVR sahib. I may have clicked on some button inadvertently. My niece declined that request anyway, so all good. :)
I have to tell you though how annoying I find all those auto friend suggestions on FB. Really Meta? Please! No!!
I changed some settings today and have joined the FB Alup. Looking forward to future interactions with all of you there too.

_________Zoya

[Naseer]

Post by Shoaib Tanvir

I disagree that ALUP is dying or will be no more. While the name ALUP (alt.language.urdu.poetry) comes from usenet, ALUP is not the medium that was used for people to talk about this amazing art, but it's the people that made up that usenet community and then the google group community. Changing the medium doesn't mean ALUP will be no more :-) - finding a new "aDDaa", that's it, and a change in scenery might add some life to the group as well!
Warm Regards
Amit Malhotra

Very well put Amit sahib. As the British Sheikh said, what's in a name?
The body may weaken, get disease, even die but the soul lives on. And sometimes the patient undergoes rejuvenation defying the dark apprehensions.
With best regards,
Shoaib Tanvir
---
Do. Or do not. There is no try.

Amit and Shoaib SaaHibaan,

Thank you for your lofty thoughts but with due respect to both of you, more recently this group has been kept going, almost single handedly, by Zoya SaaHiba. The rest of us, for whatever reason, were no where to be seen. Best Wishes, Naseer

[Zoya]

Post by Naseer
Thank you for your lofty thoughts but with due respect to both of you, more recently this group has been kept going, almost single handedly, by Zoya SaaHiba. The rest of us, for whatever reason, were no where to be seen. Best Wishes, Naseer

Thanks Naseer sahib, you are being too generous here. In fact, I should be returning the compliment, often it is you who has been keeping Alup alive singlehandedly. And Prof RK has always been the real 'anchor'. But of course, the more the merrier!
As Amit said, it is great relief that Alup archives will be preserved and remain searchable. It would have been a huge loss otherwise, irrevocable.

[Amit Malhotra]

I went ahead and setup a small server / community on Discord today. It's setup to be more like a forum.
For those who don't know discord, it's a chat application that allows you to make communities. You will need to download a discord client (phone, laptop/desktop) or just use the discord web client to make an account and then use this link to join the community: https://discord.gg/GNRgXPxqsW

Discord is another option. We can also create a discord server, everybody can join it and start posting there as well. Different channels can be created, thats' a great way to have the community alive. People will need a discord app on their phone or discord client on their desktops, it can also be used on the web (https://discord.com/). It is likely that this is one of the best ways today to create a community. Discord servers can be moderated easily, we can have admins, etc.