Zoya SaaHibah, aadaab.
Post by ZoyaPost by Irfan AbidPost by Anis KhanKahna thi dil ki baat ishaaroN meiN hi Anis
GhazloN ka aaj hum ne bahaana bana liya
In sher #5, “kahnaa” should be “kahnii.”
Sincerely,
Irfan sahib, aadaab,
You beat me to this one, this construction immediately struck me when I fist read the she'r. :)
"mujhe cycle chalaana aati hai"
yaa
"mujhe cycle chalaani aati hai"
You can probably guess which option I went with! After a long winded discussion, we agreed to disagree, which basically means I couldn't be fully convinced by the counter arguments. You know me! BTW, the discussion ended up involving the gender of the rider as well as if the bike was 'gents' or ladies' model. :)
I was a bit surprised that you, with your background, went with 'baat kahni'. One of the talking points (read 'charges') back then was that Punjabis say it 'differently' (read "........ly"). :-))
BTW, based on this misraa and my past expert tutorial, I had assumed that Anis sahib must be a native Urdu speaker. I'll be curious to know if my assumption is correct.
Thanks for providing another learning opportunity.
________Zoya
As I have indicated in my other post, one can ride your bicyle in three ways.
1. mujhe cycle chalaanii aatii hai. (Delhi style and NOT Punjabi way. It is just a coincidence that this construction maps with Punjabi grammar. Here, "cycle chalaanii" as a whole is a considered as a feminine noun and therefore matches with "aatii hai".
2. mujhe cycle chalaanaa aatii hai (Lucknow style)- Here "cycle" (feminine noun) is linked to "aatii hai")
It seems Urdu masters have not always stuck to these boundries but have overlapped now and again.
3. mujhe cycle chalaanaa aataa hai. (Also Lucknow style- Here "cycle chalaanaa" as a whole is considered to be a masculine noun which matches with "aataa hai".
Older Urdu did have much similarity with Punjabi grammar, as can be seen in the examples below.
nah Ghunche gul ke khile haiN, nah nargis kii khiliiN kaliyaaN
chaman meN le ke Khamiyaazah kisii ne aNkhaRiyaaN maliyaaN
(Sauda)
(Punjabi would still use maliyaaN whereas in modern Urdu we now have "maliiN")
sau baar dekhiyaaN maiN tirii be-vafaa'iyaaN
tis par bhii nit Ghuruur hai dil meN nibaah kaa
(Dard)
(Like Punjabi, "ne" is missing)
is ziist se bihtar hai ab maut pih dil dhariye
jal bujhiye kahiiN jaa kar yaa Duub kahiiN mariye
This tense formation is still common in Punjabi but in Urdu, it is not common in this sense in the modern language, at least.
C.M.Naim, in his introduction to "Introductory Urdu, 3rd edition published in 1999 by University of Chicago" states the following when talking about differences between Hindi and Urdu. "In another indirect construction, Hindi usually has the infinitive, functioning as a complement, agreeing with the grammatical subject of the verb; Urdu, however, commonly has two more possibilities
Hindi: mujhe kuchh kitaabeN Khariidnii haiN
...........................................................
Urdu: mujhe kuchh kitaabeN Khariidnaa haiN (equivalent to: mujhe cycleN chalaanaa aatii haiN)
: mujhe kuchh kitaabeN Khariidnaa hai (equivalent to: mujhe cycleN chalaanaa aataa hai)
: mujhe kuchh kitaabeN Khariidnii haiN (equivalent to: mujhe cycleN chalaanii aatii haiN)
You may remember Roshan Kamat SaaHib. In a private message, he wrote the following
(o) laRkE kA `irAda haE.
(o) laRkE kI aOqAt haE.
Here, in the direct case the noun remains unchanged; but in oblique it adopts the 'E' form (laRkA -laRkE)
(I provided two oblique forms so that both the masculine possessive & feminine singular possessive will be covered to prevent any confusion arising from that.)
Contrast with..
(o) laRkI haE.
(o) laRkI kA`irAda haE.
(o) laRkI kI aOqAt haE.
Here, the feminine noun retains its form regardless of whether it is direct or oblique.
Now, for the sake of argument, assume that "bAt karnA" (or "bAtE.n karnA") is a singular masculine noun. If so, we should be able to drop it directly into the masculine declensions without flinching.
(o) bAt karnA haE.
(o) bAt karnE kA`irAda haE.
(o) bAt karnE kI aOqAt haE.
So far so good. This fits. But, let's see what happens if we assume "bAt karnI" is a singular feminine noun and drop it into the feminine declension.
(o) bAt karnI haE.
(o) bAt karnI kA`irAda haE
(o) bAt karnI kI aOqAt haE.
I'm sure you must have found the last two sentences revolting! Even if you have been using the first line on a daily basis.Based on this, it is pretty clear which form fits the grammatical model better. In terms of 'lateral compatibility' with current grammar, the "bAt karnA" as singular masculine wins hands down.
One could ofcourse say that "bAt karnI" (and indeed all infinitive verbs of this nature) should be treated as a special (new?) category of declensions. I couldn't argue against that. But, as the current grammar stands, the feminine form doesn't align to the established declentions.
roshan
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Naseer