Post by NaseerIrfan SaaHib, aadaab 3arz hai.
Thank you for your detailed and well-researched article on the subject of "A Brief History of Bollywood Lyrics: Writers, Language and Content" and it was indeed fascinating reading. You have no doubt put a lot of time and effort in writing this article for which you deserve gratitude from every lover of Bollywood songs. Connoisseurs of Urdu poetry and Bollywood films, like Afzal SaaHib, no doubt would have much more considered opinion about your article but nevertheless, I would like to make a few points.
Naseer sb, aadaab!
It is so nice to hear from you after a long time. Hope all is well at your end. Thank you so much for your kind words of appreciation and your esteemed comments.
Post by Naseer"In fact, during this time the lyricists began using a mixture of Urdu and literary Hindi that had an almost equal proportion of the two constituents – something that would blur the line between the two languages over time. This development was not limited to Bollywood. Even outside of Bollywood, these two languages, which originated from different sources (Urdu from Persian and Arabic, and Hindi from Sanskrit), were borrowing heavily from each other and coming closer and closer."
I believe it is an accepted fact that both Urdu and literary Hindi (jab ko'ii tumhaaraa hradaya toR de*) have their foundation in KhaRi-Boli. It is Persian/Arabic vocabulary along with their idioms that made KhaRi-Boli into Urdu and direct borrowing from Sanskrit which made the same Khari-Boli, albeit at a much later stage, into what is often termed as Modern Hindi.
You are absolutely right about the foundation of both Urdu and literary Hindi being khadi boli as far as the syntax is concerned. However, when I say “language” in my article, I am generally referring to vocabulary. I think I should have been more specific about this in the article.
Post by Naseer"Anand Bakhshi injected the Punjabi dialect of Urdu-Hindi mix in songs like “tumse o Hasina kabhi muhabbat na maine karni thi.”
The myth that this kind of sentence has its basis in the Punjabi speaking world is just a myth. Please see post dated 26th February 2016 of the following thread which should convince you that this construction has its origins amongst the Urdu speakers of Delhi. So, Anand Bakhshi is just following the Delhi School of Urdu.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.language.urdu.poetry/maiN$20ne$20jaanaa$20hai%7Csort:relevance/alt.language.urdu.poetry/LHsukHBuYxM/gOVJOnL_CgAJ
I reviewed some information at the link you provided, but not all (I will, when time permits.) Assuming that your research is correct (and I know you are very dependable in this regard) and that such a dialect was born in Delhi out of people not originally from Punjab, I am wondering how it reached and was adopted by the Punjabis of today and why no other community other than Punjabis uses this dialect. Any thoughts? In any case, since this dialect is now primarily practiced by Punjabis, I think the statement in the article is still valid. :)
Post by Naseer"Kasme Vaade Karz Kudrat Kareeb...". I am assuming you have spelt the names of these films with a "K" because that is how Hindi speakers might spell them(?). I believe you meant to write "KasmeN" and not "kasme". Also perhaps you meant to write "maujaaN hi maujaaN".
Your assumption about the “K” words is right on the mark. If I were to use these words in the Romanized version of my (or somebody else’s) Urdu poetry or prose, I would write all of these words with a “Q.” But I kept them as they are in the actual titles of the films in question. The film Kasme Vaade was spelled exactly as I wrote (there was no “N” in Kasme.) Regarding “mauja” vs “maujaaN,” I must admit that my knowledge of Punjabi is very limited. The correct pronunciation may be “maujaaN,” but again, I have used the spelling that is found on websites offering Bollywood lyrics in Roman.
Post by Naseer"In the case of these lyricists, although it would be safe to say that Hindi was slightly more dominant in their language than Urdu, the fact is that it was difficult to tell as to which constituent was dominant because, as mentioned earlier in this article, the line between Urdu and Hindi was getting more and more obscure now. Examples of songs from the 1970’s include “kya hua tera wada” (Hum Kisise Kum Nahin), “hum tum ek kamre mein” (Bobby), “mere dil mein” (Daag), “pal pal dil ke paas” (Blackmail), “zindagi ek safar” (Andaz), “ye duniya ye mehfil” (Heer Ranjha), “zindagi ka safar” (Safar), “jai bolo” (Be-Imaan), “koi hota” (Mere Apne), “zindagi kaisi hai paheli” (Anand), “chalte chalte” (Chalte Chalte), “naino mein darpan” (Aarop) and “main na bhoolunga” (Roti Kapda Aur Makan.)"
Of the songs you have listed in this paragraph, I listened to "kyaa hu'aa teraa va3dah","yih dunyaa yih maHfil"* and "chalte chalte". I would put all these songs in the Urdu category without any hesitation.
The first part of the text you quoted from the article (Hindi being more dominant in the language) is actually about “the rest of the newcomers” of 70’s except Gulzar (i.e. Yogesh, Amit Khanna, Maya Govind and Santosh Anand.) But the examples of songs cover ALL writers who were active in the 70’s. You are right about “yeh duniya” being primarily an Urdu song. “kya hua” can also be treated the same way. But I don’t know if “chalte chalte” is a Urdu song or Hindi.
Post by Naseer"And the worst part is that their work is not being critiqued even by those who should. Songs like “hum tere bin” (Aashiqui 2) and “suno na” (Youngistaan) are being nominated for “best lyrics” award despite having flaws. In the “hum tere bin” song the writer uses “hum” and “mera” for the same person in the same line whereas “hum” could have easily been replaced by “main.” This mismatch of pronouns is present elsewhere in the lyrics. In the same song, in the first two lines of the first stanza the writer seems to be rhyming the word “nahin” with “kabhi.”
I am sure you would already be well aware of the concept of "shutur-gurbah" in Urdu poetry where pronouns are mixed up. These writers are perhaps keeping alight one aspect of Urdu poetry!:-) With regard to "kabhii" being rhymed with "nahiiN", is n't there a precedence of this in Shauq Lakhnavii's poetry?
ko'ii martaa hai kyoN? balaa jaane
ham bahuu betiyaaN yih kyaa jaaneN
.......
Well said! :) As you know, "shutur-gurbah" is considered an “aib” (flaw) in Urdu poetry. I know there are instances of “shutur-gurbah” in the poetry of some reputed poets, but these are rare and even so, aren’t appreciated and followed by those who care for perfection in poetry. Moreover, the important thing is that those poets KNEW what they were doing although their reasons for practicing "shutur-gurbah" may not be acceptable. On the other hand, the examples I gave you are a result of sheer ignorance of language, which is exactly what I am trying to highlight.
Regarding the use of “jaaneN” and “jaane” in place of each other, I must say that although I wouldn’t do so in my poetry, I can digest it because of the structure of these words. The ending sound in both the words is primarily determined by “noon” and “baRi ye” and “noon-e-Ghunnah” hardly has a role in the phonetics of these words. That is why both sound almost alike. That is not the case with “kabhii” and “nahiiN.”
Post by Naseer* "ko'ii jab tumhaaraa..." song has dar, sar, daaman, javaanii, shart and nazar. So, I don't believe this song is a good example of the Hindi song. In the "yih dunyaa yih maHfil" song, I think the only word which one could say is not regular Urdu is "parbat". Apart from that I could n't think of any other word that would put this song in the category where the Urdu/Hindi line is difficult to draw.
I agree that “koi jab tumhara” is not the best example of a pure Hindi song. The only reason I cited it is that I have already qualified the word “pure” before these examples. Regarding “ye duniya” song, as I said above, I agree that this can be classified as an Urdu song.
Post by NaseerBest Wishes,
Naseer
Thanks a lot once again for your appreciation and comments. Hope you will keep blessing me like this in the future.
Sincerely,
Irfan