aaj kaa she'r (#4)

[Zoya]

Friends,

When I started the original "aaj kaa she'r" thread, little did I know that it will turn into a series. First of all, my sincere thanks to all group members who have participated actively in the previous three chapters of this thread. The posts are a lot more than a simple collection of asha'ar. It is sort of like the village square, where the group members get together for all sorts of discussions, mostly related to Urdu poetry and language. The earlier threads in this series have provided many learning opportunities for me personally.

Irfan Abid sahib recently pointed out that the thread "aaj kaa she'r (#3)" was getting too long and it is time to start #4. I agree, so here we go!

All of us are still living in an unprecedented globally stressful time, with no end in sight for the constantly mutating pandemic. This is the last day of 2021, a 'shapeless' year that has been very exhausting.

To keep hopes alive for a better year ahead, Irfan sahib quoted this she'r by Ameer Qazalbash in his last post in the previous thread:

ufuq kii kokh se suuraj kaa nuur niklegaa
ki shab ke ba'd saveraa zaruur niklegaa

Let me start this new thread with a she'r from one of my favorite ghazals, by one of my favorite poets, Firaq Gorakhpuri:

guzashta a'hd ki yaadoN ko phir karo taazaa
bujhe charaagh jalaao bahut andheraa hai

Oh, how I would love to go back to 2019!

I know our group has been rather slow lately, with very few active members, some of the veteran members on extended leaves of absence. If you have been away for a while and want to jump back on the Alup wagon, or are considering joining this group as a new member, this thread is an excellent place to start! :)

See you around,
Hoping for a mundane, uneventful 2022,

________Zoya

[Zoya]

For book keeping purposes, I am pasting here the links to the previous three "aaj kaa she'r" threads.

aaj kaa she'r (#1):
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/E_tQANEKy1I

aaj kaa she'r (#2):
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/spM5_W6p8sU

aaj kaa she'r (#3):
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.language.urdu.poetry/c/_Y4ygE5lVCw

_________Zoya

[Irfan Abid]

Post by Zoya
Friends,
When I started the original "aaj kaa she'r" thread, little did I know that it will turn into a series. First of all, my sincere thanks to all group members who have participated actively in the previous three chapters of this thread. The posts are a lot more than a simple collection of asha'ar. It is sort of like the village square, where the group members get together for all sorts of discussions, mostly related to Urdu poetry and language. The earlier threads in this series have provided many learning opportunities for me personally.
Irfan Abid sahib recently pointed out that the thread "aaj kaa she'r (#3)" was getting too long and it is time to start #4. I agree, so here we go!
All of us are still living in an unprecedented globally stressful time, with no end in sight for the constantly mutating pandemic. This is the last day of 2021, a 'shapeless' year that has been very exhausting.
ufuq kii kokh se suuraj kaa nuur niklegaa
ki shab ke ba'd saveraa zaruur niklegaa
guzashta a'hd ki yaadoN ko phir karo taazaa
bujhe charaagh jalaao bahut andheraa hai
Oh, how I would love to go back to 2019!
I know our group has been rather slow lately, with very few active members, some of the veteran members on extended leaves of absence. If you have been away for a while and want to jump back on the Alup wagon, or are considering joining this group as a new member, this thread is an excellent place to start! :)
See you around,
Hoping for a mundane, uneventful 2022,
________Zoya

Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

Thanks for starting this thread! My heartiest greetings for a Happy New Year to you and other ALUPers!

I want to add a humble she'r of mine here, but a quick note before that. The she'r you have quoted is my tukbandi, not Ameer Qazalbash's creation. :) The zameen is certainly his. I have just posted the Ghazal this matla's is from.

And here is a she'r for this thread:

jo gaye saal milaa zaKhm-e-jigar, rakhte haiN
ham naye saal se ummeed magar rakhte haiN

niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:

[Dinesh Shenoy]

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 11:07:29 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:
<snip>

usii ka shahr, vahii muddaii, vahii munsif
hameN yaqiiN tha hamaaraa qusuur niklegaa

I realize it will not be in meter but ... I felt if only we can add "hii" in the 2nd line?

hameiN yaqiiN tha hamaaraa "hii" qusuur niklega

________Zoya

[Raj Kumar]

Post by Dinesh Shenoy

usii ka shahr, vahii muddaii, vahii munsif
hameN yaqiiN tha hamaaraa qusuur niklegaa

I realize it will not be in meter but ... I felt if only we can add "hii" in the 2nd line?

Dinesh sahib,
The bahr for this ghazal is
1212 /1122 /1212 /22

Post by Dinesh Shenoy
hameiN yaqiiN tha hamaaraa "hii" qusuur niklega

1 2 1 2 /1 1 2 2 /1 2 1 2 / 2 2
u sii ka shah/r va hii mud/da ii va hii/ mun sif
ya qiiN tha k-ha/maa raa hii/qu suu r nik/le gaa
Of course, this is contingent on approval by my ustaads RK sahib/Irfan sahib.
________Zoya

***Sorry, Dinesh sahib, there is no room for the word "hii" (or even "hi") in this line.

R.K.***

[Zoya]

Post by Raj Kumar
***Sorry, Dinesh sahib, there is no room for the word "hii" (or even "hi") in this line.
R.K.***

That settles it Dinesh sahib.
Thanks Prof RK. I kind of thought so too, tried variations with both hii/hi and posted one of the creations. It would have been easy if I could get away with 'hamaraa' as 112, but I dare not even suggest something like that in your presence or even your absence for that matter. :-)
Miss you already, so happy to see you in this thread.

Have a healthy 2022,

________Zoya

[Naseer]

Post by Raj Kumar

Post by Dinesh Shenoy

usii ka shahr, vahii muddaii, vahii munsif
hameN yaqiiN tha hamaaraa qusuur niklegaa

I realize it will not be in meter but ... I felt if only we can add "hii" in the 2nd line?

Dinesh sahib,
The bahr for this ghazal is
1212 /1122 /1212 /22

Post by Dinesh Shenoy
hameiN yaqiiN tha hamaaraa "hii" qusuur niklega

1 2 1 2 /1 1 2 2 /1 2 1 2 / 2 2
u sii ka shah/r va hii mud/da ii va hii/ mun sif
ya qiiN tha k-ha/maa raa hii/qu suu r nik/le gaa
Of course, this is contingent on approval by my ustaads RK sahib/Irfan sahib.
________Zoya

***Sorry, Dinesh sahib, there is no room for the word "hii" (or even "hi") in this line.
R.K.***

Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.

In the first misra3 of this shi3r, is the consonant 3ain missing in the word mudda3ii which has perhaps compelled Dinesh SaaHib to expect a hii/hi in the second misra3?

Naseer

[Zoya]

Post by Naseer
Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.
In the first misra3 of this shi3r, is the consonant 3ain missing in the word mudda3ii which has perhaps compelled Dinesh SaaHib to expect a hii/hi in the second misra3?
Naseer

Prof RK,

As your self appointed TA, may I please try to answer this question? Regardless of the transliteration style for "ain" in Roman, be it ' . 3 or nothing, the weight of ain has been accounted for in muddaii -> 212. ain by itself is weight 1, pairing it with a preceding d is still weight 1. So, unless we focus on how Roman Urdu is written, there is no cause for confusion here. Of course, Dinesh sahib can speak for himself and let us know if this was an issue for him, or not.

Thank you all for joining in this discussion. This is exactly what I was talking about when I said this thread is more than just a simple collection of asha'ar! :)

The fun continues,

________Zoya

[Raj Kumar]

Post by Naseer

Post by Raj Kumar

Post by Dinesh Shenoy

usii ka shahr, vahii muddaii, vahii munsif
hameN yaqiiN tha hamaaraa qusuur niklegaa

I realize it will not be in meter but ... I felt if only we can add "hii" in the 2nd line?

***Sorry, Dinesh sahib, there is no room for the word "hii" (or even "hi") in this line.
R.K.***

Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.
In the first misra3 of this shi3r, is the consonant 3ain missing in the word mudda3ii which has perhaps compelled Dinesh SaaHib to expect a hii/hi in the second misra3?

***Frankly, I don't think so. At the same time, I can't say what propelled Dinesh sahib to suggest what he did.

Even though ZS has already resolved this query via (1,2)-notation, let me try it a different way that requires me to compare the two misr'as of this she'r written vertically rather than horizontally ------------- just for you, Naseer sahib! :-)

usii = hameN
ka shah = yaqeeN
r = tha (effectively, th)
vahii = hamaa
mudda'ii = raa qusuu (note that the sound of Harf 'ain' is duly taken care of)
vahii = r nik
munsif = le ga

As you can see, all syllables in the two misr'as match perfectly, which means that there is no room here for an extra "hii", or even "hi".

Moreover, if there were any genuine problem here, Irfan sahib would have already noted it, which he didn't.

R.K.***

[Naseer]

Post by Raj Kumar
***Frankly, I don't think so. At the same time, I can't say what propelled Dinesh sahib to suggest what he did.
Even though ZS has already resolved this query via (1,2)-notation, let me try it a different way that requires me to compare the two misr'as of this she'r written vertically rather than horizontally ------------- just for you, Naseer sahib! :-)
usii = hameN
ka shah = yaqeeN
r = tha (effectively, th)
vahii = hamaa
mudda'ii = raa qusuu (note that the sound of Harf 'ain' is duly taken care of)
vahii = r nik
munsif = le ga
As you can see, all syllables in the two misr'as match perfectly, which means that there is no room here for an extra "hii", or even "hi".
Moreover, if there were any genuine problem here, Irfan sahib would have already noted it, which he didn't.
R.K.***

Thank you very much indeed Raj Kumar SaaHib for an explanation which even the remedial children in the class can understand!:-)
Naseer

[Zoya]

Thought of the day:

Today is the gurpurab celebrating Guru Gobind Singh's birthday. One of my most favorite nazms of all time is an ode praising the qualities of Guru Gobind Singh, written in Persian by Bhai Nand Lal Goya, who was a contemporary of Guru sahib. The only hymns that can be sung in gurdwaras are the ones included in Guru Granth sahib, but some of Bhai Nand Lal's poetry is an exception, this being one of them.

It is a long nazm and many Sikh raagis have sung portions of it. I am sharing a recording of the first few asha'ar of the nazm in Bhai Harjinder Singh's voice. I think the group members will definitely appreciate how well Bhai Nand Lal has expressed his feelings and devotion towards Guru Gobind Singh, I find this poetry par excellence:

________Zoya

[Raj Kumar]

Post by Naseer

Post by Raj Kumar
***Frankly, I don't think so. At the same time, I can't say what propelled Dinesh sahib to suggest what he did.
Even though ZS has already resolved this query via (1,2)-notation, let me try it a different way that requires me to compare the two misr'as of this she'r written vertically rather than horizontally ------------- just for you, Naseer sahib! :-)
usii = hameN
ka shah = yaqeeN
r = tha (effectively, th)
vahii = hamaa
mudda'ii = raa qusuu (note that the sound of Harf 'ain' is duly taken care of)
vahii = r nik
munsif = le ga
As you can see, all syllables in the two misr'as match perfectly, which means that there is no room here for an extra "hii", or even "hi".
Moreover, if there were any genuine problem here, Irfan sahib would have already noted it, which he didn't.
R.K.***

Thank you very much indeed Raj Kumar SaaHib for an explanation which even the remedial children in the class can understand!:-)
Naseer

***Thanks for your response, Naseer sahib. I am glad that this explanation was successful in satisfying your curiosity.

I, on the other hand, kept wondering all night "what, if Naseer sahib continues to have doubts about this matter"? With that possibility in mind, I came up with another explanation which is so simple, yet so convincing. Let me present it here for fun.

Suppose the misr'a were
mujhe yaqiiN tha, miraa hii qusuur nikle gaa --------- (1).
No one would have raised any issue with it.

However, the misr'a in question is
hameN yaqiiN tha, hamaaraa qusuur nikle gaa ---------- (2)

Comparing the relevant portions of these two misr'as vazn-wise, we note that
mujhe = hameN and miraa hii = hamaa raa
goyaa, misr'a #2 meN "hii" ka maqaam "raa" ne le rakkhaa hai; nateejatan, yahaaN aek mazeed "hii" ki guNjaa'ish nahiiN hai! QED

R.K.

[Dinesh Shenoy]

Post by Raj Kumar

Post by Naseer

Post by Raj Kumar
***Frankly, I don't think so. At the same time, I can't say what propelled Dinesh sahib to suggest what he did.
Even though ZS has already resolved this query via (1,2)-notation, let me try it a different way that requires me to compare the two misr'as of this she'r written vertically rather than horizontally ------------- just for you, Naseer sahib! :-)
usii = hameN
ka shah = yaqeeN
r = tha (effectively, th)
vahii = hamaa
mudda'ii = raa qusuu (note that the sound of Harf 'ain' is duly taken care of)
vahii = r nik
munsif = le ga
As you can see, all syllables in the two misr'as match perfectly, which means that there is no room here for an extra "hii", or even "hi".
Moreover, if there were any genuine problem here, Irfan sahib would have already noted it, which he didn't.
R.K.***

Thank you very much indeed Raj Kumar SaaHib for an explanation which even the remedial children in the class can understand!:-)
Naseer

***Thanks for your response, Naseer sahib. I am glad that this explanation was successful in satisfying your curiosity.
I, on the other hand, kept wondering all night "what, if Naseer sahib continues to have doubts about this matter"? With that possibility in mind, I came up with another explanation which is so simple, yet so convincing. Let me present it here for fun.
Suppose the misr'a were
mujhe yaqiiN tha, miraa hii qusuur nikle gaa --------- (1).
No one would have raised any issue with it.
However, the misr'a in question is
hameN yaqiiN tha, hamaaraa qusuur nikle gaa ---------- (2)
Comparing the relevant portions of these two misr'as vazn-wise, we note that
mujhe = hameN and miraa hii = hamaa raa
goyaa, misr'a #2 meN "hii" ka maqaam "raa" ne le rakkhaa hai; nateejatan, yahaaN aek mazeed "hii" ki guNjaa'ish nahiiN hai! QED
R.K.

Raj Kumar sahib,

I just felt that the addition of hii makes it more ... "whiny" ... in a good way? So, "I" like your version better ...

"mujhe yaqiiN tha, miraa hii qusuur nikle gaa "

Also, what you casually call "so simple", I call it "brilliant" :)


Dinesh

[Raj Kumar]

Post by Dinesh Shenoy

Post by Raj Kumar

Post by Naseer

Post by Raj Kumar
***Frankly, I don't think so. At the same time, I can't say what propelled Dinesh sahib to suggest what he did.
Even though ZS has already resolved this query via (1,2)-notation, let me try it a different way that requires me to compare the two misr'as of this she'r written vertically rather than horizontally ------------- just for you, Naseer sahib! :-)
usii = hameN
ka shah = yaqeeN
r = tha (effectively, th)
vahii = hamaa
mudda'ii = raa qusuu (note that the sound of Harf 'ain' is duly taken care of)
vahii = r nik
munsif = le ga
As you can see, all syllables in the two misr'as match perfectly, which means that there is no room here for an extra "hii", or even "hi".
Moreover, if there were any genuine problem here, Irfan sahib would have already noted it, which he didn't.
R.K.***

Thank you very much indeed Raj Kumar SaaHib for an explanation which even the remedial children in the class can understand!:-)
Naseer

***Thanks for your response, Naseer sahib. I am glad that this explanation was successful in satisfying your curiosity.
I, on the other hand, kept wondering all night "what, if Naseer sahib continues to have doubts about this matter"? With that possibility in mind, I came up with another explanation which is so simple, yet so convincing. Let me present it here for fun.
Suppose the misr'a were
mujhe yaqiiN tha, miraa hii qusuur nikle gaa --------- (1).
No one would have raised any issue with it.
However, the misr'a in question is
hameN yaqiiN tha, hamaaraa qusuur nikle gaa ---------- (2)
Comparing the relevant portions of these two misr'as vazn-wise, we note that
mujhe = hameN and miraa hii = hamaa raa
goyaa, misr'a #2 meN "hii" ka maqaam "raa" ne le rakkhaa hai; nateejatan, yahaaN aek mazeed "hii" ki guNjaa'ish nahiiN hai! QED
R.K.

Raj Kumar sahib,
I just felt that the addition of hii makes it more ... "whiny" ... in a good way? So, "I" like your version better ...
"mujhe yaqiiN tha, miraa hii qusuur nikle gaa "
Also, what you casually call "so simple", I call it "brilliant" :)

***Thanks, Dinesh sahib, you made my day! :-)

R.K.***

[Zoya]

An old favorite, an occasional thought, aaj kaa she'r:

ab tiraa zikr bhi shaayad hi ghazal meN aaye
aur ke aur hue dard ke unvaaN jaanaaN

[Zoya]

Thought/poem of the Day:

On MLK Day, I listened to some timeless speeches by Dr King this morning on NPR. Most of what he said is still relevant today, and these words have been reverberating with me:

"There comes a time when silence is betrayal".

This quote reminds me of a nazm by Faiz Ahmed Faiz:

bol, k lab aazaad haiN tere
bol, zabaaN ab tak terii hai
...........
bol, k sach zindah hai ab tak
bol, jo kuchh kehna hai keh le!

[Dinesh Shenoy]

Post by Zoya
"There comes a time when silence is betrayal".

<snip>

Zoya sahiba,

Let me repeat this hindi couplet here ...

समर शेष है, नहीं पाप का भागी केवल व्याध
जो तटस्थ हैं, समय लिखेगा उनके भी अपराध

samar shesh hai, nahiiN paap kaa bhaagi keval vyaadh
jO taTasth haiN, samay likhega unke bhii aparaadh

Btw, my favorite MLK quote is ..,
“I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is

[Naseer]

Post by Dinesh Shenoy

Post by Zoya
"There comes a time when silence is betrayal".

<snip>
Zoya sahiba,
Let me repeat this hindi couplet here ...
समर शेष है, नहीं पाप का भागी केवल व्याध
जो तटस्थ हैं, समय लिखेगा उनके भी अपराध
samar shesh hai, nahiiN paap kaa bhaagi keval vyaadh
jO taTasth haiN, samay likhega unke bhii aparaadh
Btw, my favorite MLK quote is ..,
“I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.”
Dinesh

Dinesh Jii aadaab.

Could you please provide a translation of the Hindi couplet.

Naseer

[Raj Kumar]

Post by Irfan Abid
Zoya sahiba,
Let me repeat this hindi couplet here ...
समर शेष है, नहीं पाप का भागी केवल व्याध
जो तटस्थ हैं, समय लिखेगा उनके भी अपराध
samar shesh hai, nahiiN paap kaa bhaagi keval vyaadh
jO taTasth haiN, samay likhega unke bhii aparaadh
Dinesh

***Paraphrase, please. Or at least the meanings of these words:

samar, shesh,

[Zoya]

samar, shesh, vyaadh, taTasth
Thanks in advance,
R.K.***

RK sahib,

Our messages obviously crossed, I already talked about 'vyaadh'!.:)
I can give the meanings of the other Hindi/Sanskrit words and try paraphrasing, but Dinesh sahib will do a much better job, so I too will wait for him to respond.

shesh vaartalaap Dinesh sahib kareN ge.

______Zoya

[Dinesh Shenoy]

Post by Irfan Abid
Zoya sahiba,
Let me repeat this hindi couplet here ...
समर शेष है, नहीं पाप का भागी केवल व्याध
जो तटस्थ हैं, समय लिखेगा उनके भी अपराध
samar shesh hai, nahiiN paap kaa bhaagi keval vyaadh
jO taTasth haiN, samay likhega unke bhii aparaadh
Dinesh

samar, shesh, vyaadh, taTasth
Thanks in advance,
R.K.***

RK sahib, "namaste" ... since we are talking about a hindi kavita :)

samar shesh hai, nahiiN paap kaa bhaagi keval vyaadh
jO taTasth haiN, samay likhega unke bhii aparaadh
-- Raamdhaari Singh Dinakar
samar = war/fight; jung in urdu?
shesh = left; baaqii in urdu?
vyaadh = hunter/oppressor; shikaarii in urdu?
taTasth=neutral/indifferent, One who does not side with any party in a war or dispute; RK sahib, please recommend a good urdu word
aparaadh=crime
Here is a loose translation ... which can never match the impact the original couplet creates ...
The fight is still on, the hunter/oppressor alone is not accountable for the crimes (being committed)
Time will judge/blame those who are opting to remain neutral/indifferent

Dinesh

[Zoya]

On Tuesday, January 18, 2022 at 6:55:01 PM UTC-6, Dinesh Shenoy wrote:

Dinesh sahib,

aap muKhaatib to Prof RK se haiN, lekin jab tak voh tashriif laate haiN, ijaazat ho to ek do baateN maiN karti chaluuN? :)

Post by Dinesh Shenoy
shesh = left; baaqii in urdu?

* Left is fine, but I would probably use 'remaining' for 'shesh'.

Post by Dinesh Shenoy
taTasth=neutral/indifferent, One who does not side with any party in a war or dispute; RK sahib, please recommend a good urdu word

*I am curious what Urdu word Prof RK will suggest for indifferent, but I am thinking "laa_ta'alluq".

is baat par aap aaj shaam kaa she'r sunte bhi jaaiye, baqaul Abbas Tabish:

laa_ta'alluq nazar aataa thaa bazaahir lekin
shahr ko us ne mirii Khair-Khabar par rakhkhaa :)

Post by Dinesh Shenoy
aparaadh=crime

* Of course, jurm.

_________Zoya

[Raj Kumar]

Post by Dinesh Shenoy

Post by Irfan Abid
Zoya sahiba,
Let me repeat this hindi couplet here ...
समर शेष है, नहीं पाप का भागी केवल व्याध
जो तटस्थ हैं, समय लिखेगा उनके भी अपराध
samar shesh hai, nahiiN paap kaa bhaagi keval vyaadh
jO taTasth haiN, samay likhega unke bhii aparaadh
Dinesh

samar, shesh, vyaadh, taTasth
Thanks in advance,
R.K.***

RK sahib, "namaste" ... since we are talking about a hindi kavita :)
samar shesh hai, nahiiN paap kaa bhaagi keval vyaadh
jO taTasth haiN, samay likhega unke bhii aparaadh
-- Raamdhaari Singh Dinakar
samar = war/fight; jung in urdu?
shesh = left; baaqii in urdu?
vyaadh = hunter/oppressor; shikaarii in urdu?
taTasth=neutral/indifferent, One who does not side with any party in a war or dispute; RK sahib, please recommend a good urdu word
aparaadh=crime
Here is a loose translation ... which can never match the impact the original couplet creates ...
The fight is still on, the hunter/oppressor alone is not accountable for the crimes (being committed)
Time will judge/blame those who are opting to remain neutral/indifferent
Dinesh

***Thanks, Dinesh sahib!

For taTasth (= neutral, non-partisan), the corresponding Urdu word is Ghair-jaanib-daar (= not taking sides).

You know jaanib-daar = taraf-daar. Hence the word Ghair-jaanib-daar, though I have never seen Ghair-taraf-daar in use.

chaliye, isi baat par aek she'r sunte jaaiye:

bhejaa tha maiN ne apnii taraf se jinheN vahaaN
jaate hi vaaN sab us ke taraf-daar ho gaye!

R.K.***

[Zoya]

Post by Raj Kumar

Post by Dinesh Shenoy
samar shesh hai, nahiiN paap kaa bhaagi keval vyaadh
jO taTasth haiN, samay likhega unke bhii aparaadh
taTasth=neutral/indifferent, One who does not side with any party in a war or dispute;

For taTasth (= neutral, non-partisan), the corresponding Urdu word is Ghair-jaanib-daar (= not taking sides).
You know jaanib-daar = taraf-daar. Hence the word Ghair-jaanib-daar, though I have never seen Ghair-taraf-daar in use.

RK sahib/Dinesh sahib,

I think we need to distinguish between 'neutral' and 'indifferent', similar words but not exact synonyms. I totally agree with RK sahib that 'neutral' would be ghair-jaanib-daar, and as I had said earlier, 'indifferent' is more like 'laa_ta'alluq'.

Coming back to the Dinkar's couplet and taTasth, I think it is a compound word literally meaning taT par stith i.e. kinaare par baiThha hua. I can visualize this as someone sitting on the coast, watching but intentionally not getting involved in any turbulence. Or maybe someone just relaxing on the beach, enjoying the sea breeze, totally indifferent to what else is going around. So neutral or indifferent? Or either??

At a personal level, there are some situations where I understand two opposing points of view, on issues big and small, and decide to stay neutral. And then there are matters that I really don't care about and am totally indifferent to what others think or say about. But if there is a gross injustice, as implied in Dinkar's couplet, it is hard for any person of good conscience to be either neutral or indifferent.

Post by Raj Kumar
bhejaa tha maiN ne apnii taraf se jinheN vahaaN
jaate hi vaaN sab us ke taraf-daar ho gaye!
R.K.***

RK sahib, baat taraf-daari kii ho rahi hai to ab aap meri pasand kaa ek she'r suniye, baqaul Saaghar Siddiqui:

Hashr meN kaun gavaahii miri degaa 'Saaghar'
sab tumhaare hi taraf-daar nazar aate haiN! :-)

_________Zoya

[bekas Murray]

Post by Zoya

Post by Raj Kumar

Post by Dinesh Shenoy
samar shesh hai, nahiiN paap kaa bhaagi keval vyaadh
jO taTasth haiN, samay likhega unke bhii aparaadh
taTasth=neutral/indifferent, One who does not side with any party in a war or dispute;

For taTasth (= neutral, non-partisan), the corresponding Urdu word is Ghair-jaanib-daar (= not taking sides).
You know jaanib-daar = taraf-daar. Hence the word Ghair-jaanib-daar, though I have never seen Ghair-taraf-daar in use.

RK sahib/Dinesh sahib,
I think we need to distinguish between 'neutral' and 'indifferent', similar words but not exact synonyms. I totally agree with RK sahib that 'neutral' would be ghair-jaanib-daar, and as I had said earlier, 'indifferent' is more like 'laa_ta'alluq'.
Coming back to the Dinkar's couplet and taTasth, I think it is a compound word literally meaning taT par stith i.e. kinaare par baiThha hua. I can visualize this as someone sitting on the coast, watching but intentionally not getting involved in any turbulence. Or maybe someone just relaxing on the beach, enjoying the sea breeze, totally indifferent to what else is going around. So neutral or indifferent? Or either??
At a personal level, there are some situations where I understand two opposing points of view, on issues big and small, and decide to stay neutral. And then there are matters that I really don't care about and am totally indifferent to what others think or say about. But if there is a gross injustice, as implied in Dinkar's couplet, it is hard for any person of good conscience to be either neutral or indifferent.

laat'aaluq if a neutral sense is desired, bayhis if the connotation implied is that remains indifferent inspite of seeing something after which one should not remain indifferent.

Post by Zoya

Post by Raj Kumar
bhejaa tha maiN ne apnii taraf se jinheN vahaaN
jaate hi vaaN sab us ke taraf-daar ho gaye!
R.K.***

Hashr meN kaun gavaahii miri degaa 'Saaghar'
sab tumhaare hi taraf-daar nazar aate haiN! :-)
_________Zoya

[Zoya]

Post by bekas Murray
laat'aaluq if a neutral sense is desired, bayhis if the connotation implied is that remains indifferent inspite of seeing something after which one should not remain indifferent.

bekas sahib, thanks for joining this discussion, the more the merrier! :)

You have described laata'alluq and behis well, behis being on the high end of the indifference spectrum. Bad, unfeeling. But sometimes it may be sort of a defense mechanism, necessary for survival?

This reminds me of something else now. Recently, I was thinking about the difference between two words used a lot these days: misinformation and disinformation.
Misinformation is simply spreading info that is false or wrong, usually without being even aware that it may not be true, and probably with no malicious intent.
Disinformation on the other hand is deliberately spreading misleading or biased information. Much worse.

Interesting stuff. How would we distinguish between these two words in Urdu or Hindi??

ab aap 'behisii' par Fatima Hasan kaa ek she'r sunte jaaiye, is kaa qaafia zaraa 'unexpected' hai, aur mujhe pasand hai:

'Fatima' dard ke rishte se kinaaraa karnaa
behisii keh lo ise, yeh koi nirvaan nahiiN

And so it continues,

__________Zoya

[bekas Murray]

Post by Zoya

Post by bekas Murray
laat'aaluq if a neutral sense is desired, bayhis if the connotation implied is that remains indifferent inspite of seeing something after which one should not remain indifferent.

bekas sahib, thanks for joining this discussion, the more the merrier! :)
You have described laata'alluq and behis well, behis being on the high end of the indifference spectrum. Bad, unfeeling. But sometimes it may be sort of a defense mechanism, necessary for survival?

A phrase that is also used is khaamosh tamaashaa'i

Post by Zoya
This reminds me of something else now. Recently, I was thinking about the difference between two words used a lot these days: misinformation and disinformation.
Misinformation is simply spreading info that is false or wrong, usually without being even aware that it may not be true, and probably with no malicious intent.
Disinformation on the other hand is deliberately spreading misleading or biased information. Much worse.
Interesting stuff. How would we distinguish between these two words in Urdu or Hindi??

ghalat baat or jhoot

Post by Zoya
'Fatima' dard ke rishte se kinaaraa karnaa
behisii keh lo ise, yeh koi nirvaan nahiiN
And so it continues,
__________Zoya

[bekas Murray]

Post by bekas Murray

Post by Zoya

Post by bekas Murray
laat'aaluq if a neutral sense is desired, bayhis if the connotation implied is that remains indifferent inspite of seeing something after which one should not remain indifferent.

bekas sahib, thanks for joining this discussion, the more the merrier! :)
You have described laata'alluq and behis well, behis being on the high end of the indifference spectrum. Bad, unfeeling. But sometimes it may be sort of a defense mechanism, necessary for survival?

A phrase that is also used is khaamosh tamaashaa'i

Post by Zoya
This reminds me of something else now. Recently, I was thinking about the difference between two words used a lot these days: misinformation and disinformation.
Misinformation is simply spreading info that is false or wrong, usually without being even aware that it may not be true, and probably with no malicious intent.
Disinformation on the other hand is deliberately spreading misleading or biased information. Much worse.
Interesting stuff. How would we distinguish between these two words in Urdu or Hindi??

dis·in·for·ma·tion
/ˌdisənfərˈmāSH(ə)n/
noun
false information which is intended to mislead, especially propaganda issued by a government organization to a rival power or the media.
"the entire Western intelligence system had been systematically manipulated with clever disinformation"

mis·in·for·ma·tion
/ˌmisinfərˈmāSH(ə)n/
noun
false or inaccurate information, especially that which is deliberately intended to deceive.
"nuclear matters are often entangled in a web of secrecy and misinformation"

If one looks at the prefixes
mis- prefix
Definition of mis- (Entry 2 of 2)
1a: badly : wrongly
misjudge
b: unfavorably
misesteem
c: in a suspicious manner
misdoubt
2: bad : wrong
misdeed
3: opposite or lack of
mistrust
4: not
misknow

dis- prefix
Definition of dis- (Entry 5 of 5)
1a: do the opposite of
disestablish
b: deprive of (a specified quality, rank, or object)
disfranchise
c: exclude or expel from
disbar
2: opposite or absence of
disunion
disaffection
3: not
disagreeable
4: completely
disannul
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dis
By number 4 disinformation would mean complete information :)

Post by bekas Murray
ghalat baat or jhoot

Post by Zoya
'Fatima' dard ke rishte se kinaaraa karnaa
behisii keh lo ise, yeh koi nirvaan nahiiN
And so it continues,
__________Zoya

[Zoya]

Post by bekas Murray
A phrase that is also used is khaamosh tamaashaa'i

I like this phrase, silent spectator, can have many different connotations.

"khaamosh tamaashaa'i", trying to think of a she'r with this phrase, but can't right now.

Prof RK, if you are reading these messages, will you please write a she'r for us using this phase? Please? :)

Post by bekas Murray

Post by Zoya
Misinformation
Disinformation
How would we distinguish between these two words in Urdu or Hindi??

ghalat baat or jhoot

Hmmmmmmm, disinformation is generally more than a simple lie, more like propagating falsehoods. I am thinking along the lines of 'jhuuTaa prachaar' in Hindi, not sure about Urdu.

________Zoya

[Raj Kumar]

Post by Zoya

Post by bekas Murray
A phrase that is also used is khaamosh tamaashaa'i

I like this phrase, silent spectator, can have many different connotations.
"khaamosh tamaashaa'i", trying to think of a she'r with this phrase, but can't right now.
Prof RK, if you are reading these messages, will you please write a she'r for us using this phase? Please? :)

***
yeh Qais k barsoN se is bazm ki raunaq thaa
qismat ne banaa Daalaa Khaamosh tamaashaa'ii

R.K.

[Zoya]

Post by Raj Kumar

Prof RK, if you are reading these messages, will you please write a she'r for us using this phrase? Please? :)

***
yeh Qais k barsoN se is bazm ki raunaq thaa
qismat ne banaa Daalaa Khaamosh tamaashaa'ii
R.K.

vaah vaah, kya baat hai Raj uncle. Spontaneous and superb. :-)

aap jaante haiN is par maiN kyaa kehne vaali huuN:

ab aksar chup chup se rahe haiN, yuuNhi kabhu lab khole haiN
pehle 'Firaaq' ko dekhaa hotaa, ab to bahut kam bole haiN

kam kam hii sahii, magar aap bolte zaruur rahiye. aap ke baghair mehfil meN jii nahiiN lagtaa.

salaamat rahiye.

_________Zoya

[bekas Murray]

Post by Zoya

Post by bekas Murray
A phrase that is also used is khaamosh tamaashaa'i

I like this phrase, silent spectator, can have many different connotations.
"khaamosh tamaashaa'i", trying to think of a she'r with this phrase, but can't right now.
Prof RK, if you are reading these messages, will you please write a she'r for us using this phase? Please? :)

Post by bekas Murray

Post by Zoya
Misinformation
Disinformation
How would we distinguish between these two words in Urdu or Hindi??

ghalat baat or jhoot

Hmmmmmmm, disinformation is generally more than a simple lie, more like propagating falsehoods. I am thinking along the lines of 'jhuuTaa prachaar' in Hindi, not sure about Urdu.

jhoot ka iblaagh
jhoot phailaanaa

Post by Zoya
________Zoya

[bekas Murray]

Post by bekas Murray

Post by Zoya

Post by bekas Murray
A phrase that is also used is khaamosh tamaashaa'i

I like this phrase, silent spectator, can have many different connotations.
"khaamosh tamaashaa'i", trying to think of a she'r with this phrase, but can't right now.
Prof RK, if you are reading these messages, will you please write a she'r for us using this phase? Please? :)

Post by bekas Murray

Post by Zoya
Misinformation
Disinformation
How would we distinguish between these two words in Urdu or Hindi??

ghalat baat or jhoot

Hmmmmmmm, disinformation is generally more than a simple lie, more like propagating falsehoods. I am thinking along the lines of 'jhuuTaa prachaar' in Hindi, not sure about Urdu.

jhoot ka iblaagh
jhoot phailaanaa

An expression that is used is "jhoot ka palanda"

Post by bekas Murray

Post by Zoya
________Zoya

[bekas Murray]

Post by Zoya

Post by bekas Murray
A phrase that is also used is khaamosh tamaashaa'i

I like this phrase, silent spectator, can have many different connotations.

Another phrase that is used is summun, bukkun, ummiyun

Post by Zoya
"khaamosh tamaashaa'i", trying to think of a she'r with this phrase, but can't right now.
Prof RK, if you are reading these messages, will you please write a she'r for us using this phase? Please? :)

Post by bekas Murray

Post by Zoya
Misinformation
Disinformation
How would we distinguish between these two words in Urdu or Hindi??

ghalat baat or jhoot

Hmmmmmmm, disinformation is generally more than a simple lie, more like propagating falsehoods. I am thinking along the lines of 'jhuuTaa prachaar' in Hindi, not sure about Urdu.
________Zoya

[Zoya]

Post by bekas Murray
Another phrase that is used is summun, bukkun, ummiyun

What???????? Who are these guys? Never heard of them. :-)

aur ab maiN yeh soch rahi huuN k agar Raj uncle se is 'phrase' par ek she'r likhne kii farmaaish karuuN, to bhalaa voh kya kaheNge? :-))

[bekas Murray]

Post by Zoya

Post by bekas Murray
Another phrase that is used is summun, bukkun, ummiyun

What???????? Who are these guys? Never heard of them. :-)

They are the deaf, the dumb, the blind (metaphorically when used in this context)
samaa'at is used in Urdu for hearing probably from the same root.
may be the same in gumsum. Not sure. The linguists can speak to that.

ummi is used in urdu more in the sense of ignorant but from Platts
A اعمي aʻmā, adj. Blind; ignorant; — s.m. A desert.

In English we have "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil"
The phrase is often used to refer to those who deal with impropriety by turning a blind eye.
In the original Japanese:
The saying in Japanese is mizaru, kikazaru, iwazaru (見ざる, 聞かざる, 言わざる) "see not, hear not, speak not", where the -zaru is a negative conjugation on the three verbs, matching zaru, the modified form of saru (猿) "monkey" used in compounds. Thus the saying (which does not include any specific reference to "evil") can also be interpreted as referring to three monkeys.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_wise_monkeys

Post by Zoya
aur ab maiN yeh soch rahi huuN k agar Raj uncle se is 'phrase' par ek she'r likhne kii farmaaish karuuN, to bhalaa voh kya kaheNge? :-))

[Zoya]

Post by bekas Murray

Post by bekas Murray
Another phrase that is used is summun, bukkun, ummiyun

In English we have "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil"

Thank you, gentlemen.

I was not familiar with the Qur'anic reference, but know about the Japanese connection.

However, growing up in India, we always associated the three wise monkeys with Mahatma Gandhi. We called them "baapu ke tiin bandar", and even had three little monkey figurines displayed in our home, each one covering eyes, ears or mouth. Regardless of the origin, this mantra is golden, only if we could follow it!

And now that I understand the 'phrase', let me quote the perfect she'r to go along with it, by Mirza Ghalib of course:

na suno gar buraa kahe koii
na kaho gar buraa kare koii

________Zoya

[bekas Murray]

Post by Zoya

Post by bekas Murray

Post by bekas Murray
Another phrase that is used is summun, bukkun, ummiyun

In English we have "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil"

Thank you, gentlemen.
I was not familiar with the Qur'anic reference, but know about the Japanese connection.
However, growing up in India, we always associated the three wise monkeys with Mahatma Gandhi. We called them "baapu ke tiin bandar", and even had three little monkey figurines displayed in our home, each one covering eyes, ears or mouth. Regardless of the origin, this mantra is golden, only if we could follow it!

here the meaning is more towards not to participate in the acts and also not to see them to keep you out of trouble or bad acts. In the context of the earlier discussion the meaning is more in the sense of to not see and hear and speak even when you are actually hearing and seeing that which should offend.

Post by Zoya
na suno gar buraa kahe koii
na kaho gar buraa kare koii

I think here the context is more on a personal note that is not to respond when you are attacked by words or deeds. In the very next sher ghalib writes:
rok lo gar ġhalat chale koī
baḳhsh do gar ḳhatā kare koī

Post by Zoya
________Zoya

[Shoaib Tanvir]

تُم کو چھونے میں بھی اندیشہِ رُسوائی ہے
میں نے چھہ سال کی پہلے بھی سزا پائی ہے

tum ko chhoonay meiN bhi adesha-e-ruswaaii hai
maiN ne chhe saal ki pehle bhi saza paai

[Zoya]

Post by Shoaib Tanvir
tum ko chhoonay meiN bhi adesha-e-ruswaaii hai
maiN ne chhe saal ki pehle bhi saza paaii hai

Always good to see you here Shoaib sahib.
sirf chhe saal ki sazaa? Not bad! :-)

vaise aap to pehle se hii Valentine's Day vaghaira ko nahiiN maante, magar abhi kuchh der pehle mere ek dost ne mujh se aaj ke din par "ek she'r" kii farmaaish kii. maiN ne JE kaa jo she'r unheN sunaaya, vohi aap bhi sun liijiye:

vafaa, iKhlaas, qurbaanii, muhabbat
ab in lafzoN ka pichhaa kyuN kareN ham?

My friend was like "what?????". I am sure you will appreciate this one more! :-))

Disillusioned, but not completely,
________Zoya :)

[Dinesh Shenoy]

On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 11:30:57 AM UTC-7, Zoya wrote:

<snip>

Post by Zoya
vafaa, iKhlaas, qurbaanii, muhabbat
ab in lafzoN ka pichhaa kyuN kareN ham?
My friend was like "what?????". I am sure you will appreciate this one more! :-))
Disillusioned, but not completely,
________Zoya :)

Zoya sahiba,

Valentine's Day par Jaun Eliya ko quote karna ... not good :) kyuN ki what little I have read of his works, it has mostly been about heartbreak. Check out his Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaun_Elia says (not that I believe everything that is stated there), his poetry is known for "unending pain of separation" :) You know I am joking, right? :)

Regarding andesha-e-ruswaii ...

fahm-O-idraak se balaa hai ye andaaz-e-wafaa
tum kO andesha-e-ruswaii bhi hai, pyar bhi hai

Dinesh

[Zoya]

Post by Irfan Abid
Zoya sahiba,
Valentine's Day par Jaun Eliya ko quote karna ... not good :)

aap sahiih farmaa rahe haiN Dinesh sahib, maiN Khud bhi yahii soch rahi thii! Not good. :)

kyuN ki what little I have read of his works, it has mostly been about heartbreak. Check out his Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaun_Elia says (not that I believe everything that is stated there), his poetry is known for "unending pain of separation" :) You know I am joking, right? :)

You are? :-)

vaise aksar yuuN hotaa hai k mujhe Shoaib sahib ko dekh kar to zaruur Jaun Eliya ke asha'ar yaad aane lagte haiN. ST was always a huge JE fan, much before the masses discovered JE. In fact, he is the friend who first introduced me to JE's poetry almost twenty years ago, and it has really grown on me over time.

Post by Irfan Abid
Regarding andesha-e-ruswaii ...
fahm-O-idraak se balaa hai ye andaaz-e-wafaa
tum kO andesha-e-ruswaii bhi hai, pyar bhi hai

kya baat hai Dinesh sahib, bahut Khuub!

andesha-e-rusvaaii bhi aur pyaar bhi?? is baat par to aap yeh suniye:

voh mere naam ki nisbat se mo'tbar Thehre
galii galii miri rusvaaiioN kaa saathi ho!

That's the way to go, right? :)

________Zoya

[Zoya]

Friends,

Greetings from India. I am visiting my dad these days, and really cherishing my time with him.

As if the world has not seen enough turmoil in the last two years, the heartbreaking images from Ukraine are unbearable.
These days, I often think of Sahir Ludhianvi's nazm "ai shariif insaano":

Khuun apnaa ho yaa paraayaa ho
nasl-e-aadam ka Khuun hai aaKhir
jaNg mashriq meN ho k maghrib meN
amn-e-aalam ka Khuun hai aaKhir :-(

_______Zoya

[Irfan Abid]

Post by Zoya
Friends,
Greetings from India. I am visiting my dad these days, and really cherishing my time with him.
As if the world has not seen enough turmoil in the last two years, the heartbreaking images from Ukraine are unbearable.
Khuun apnaa ho yaa paraayaa ho
nasl-e-aadam ka Khuun hai aaKhir
jaNg mashriq meN ho k maghrib meN
amn-e-aalam ka Khuun hai aaKhir :-(
_______Zoya

Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

This reminds me of a humble qat'a of mine:

sar ham ne sitaaroN ko kiyaa aur zameeN ke
kal jaise the haalaat, kam-o-besh vuhii haiN
jangeN bhii haiN, KhuuN-rezii bhii, nafrat bhii hai, shar bhii
yaanii ki masaa'il hameN darpesh vuhii haiN!

Please convey my most sincere regards to your dad.

Irfan :Abid:

[Zoya]

Post by Irfan Abid
Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

aadaab Irfan sahib,

Post by Irfan Abid
sar ham ne sitaaroN ko kiyaa aur zameeN ke
kal jaise the haalaat, kam-o-besh vuhii haiN
jangeN bhii haiN, KhuuN-rezii bhii, nafrat bhii hai, shar bhii
yaanii ki masaa'il hameN darpesh vuhii haiN!

I am sitting with dad right now, and just read your qat'a to him. His compliments, and verbatim response to you:
"This kind of poetry was very popular after the second world war, when there was a dire need for peace in the world. Then we became complacent, and believed there will be no more major wars. The current attack on Ukraine is a stark reminder for the revival of this kind of poetry once again."

Post by Irfan Abid
Please convey my most sincere regards to your dad.

I just did, and asked dad to recite a she'r for me to post in this thread. He quoted from a ghazal that he had heard years ago, from Sahir Ludhianvi himself during one of his visits to Ludhiana. So, pesh hai aaj kaa she'r:

naghmaa jo hai to ruuH meN hai, nai meN kuchh nahiiN
gar tujh meN kuchh nahiiN, to kisii shai meN kuchh nahiiN

Sahir's hometown girl,
______Zoya

[Irfan Abid]

Post by Zoya

Post by Irfan Abid
Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

aadaab Irfan sahib,

Post by Irfan Abid
sar ham ne sitaaroN ko kiyaa aur zameeN ke
kal jaise the haalaat, kam-o-besh vuhii haiN
jangeN bhii haiN, KhuuN-rezii bhii, nafrat bhii hai, shar bhii
yaanii ki masaa'il hameN darpesh vuhii haiN!

"This kind of poetry was very popular after the second world war, when there was a dire need for peace in the world. Then we became complacent, and believed there will be no more major wars. The current attack on Ukraine is a stark reminder for the revival of this kind of poetry once again."

Post by Irfan Abid
Please convey my most sincere regards to your dad.

naghmaa jo hai to ruuH meN hai, nai meN kuchh nahiiN
gar tujh meN kuchh nahiiN, to kisii shai meN kuchh nahiiN
Sahir's hometown girl,
______Zoya

Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

Thanks a lot for sharing my qat'a with your dad and his thoughts with me. Please convey my gratitude and deepest regards to your dad.

An acquaintance on social media expressed concerns today that the collective secular/socialist/Gandhian philosophy of the (political) opposition in India seems to have died in the tirade of hate and bigotry launched by those in power, and wondered when it will be reestablished among the people. A she'r was born in my mind after reading his thoughts, which is my she'r of the day.

zamaanaa jab kahegaa, bujh chukii hai aag ab saarii
taRap kar raakh se niklegii ik Khaamosh chingaarii

Sincerely,
Irfan :Abid:

[Zoya]

Post by Irfan Abid
Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

aadaab Irfan sahib.

Post by Irfan Abid
Thanks a lot for sharing my qat'a with your dad and his thoughts with me. Please convey my gratitude and deepest regards to your dad.

You are most welcome. Totally my pleasure, from both ends.

Post by Irfan Abid
An acquaintance on social media expressed concerns today that the collective secular/socialist/Gandhian philosophy of the (political) opposition in India seems to have died in the tirade of hate and bigotry launched by those in power, and wondered when it will be reestablished among the people. A she'r was born in my mind after reading his thoughts, which is my she'r of the day.
zamaanaa jab kahegaa, bujh chukii hai aag ab saarii
taRap kar raakh se niklegii ik Khaamosh chingaarii

kyaa hii hasb-e-Haal she'r hai, bahut Khuub. daad qubuul kiijiye.

Your acquaintance's concerns are generally valid. However, one of the highlights of my current stay in Punjab is that I have in person witnessed general public's enthusiastic reactions to the most recent election results. Everybody seems to be infused with a new hope for a brighter future for the state. To quote dad's response to your she'r, "A spark has been ignited here, hopefully the flames of positive change will spread."

Post by Irfan Abid
Sincerely,

Thanks,
________Zoya

[Irfan Abid]

Post by Zoya

Post by Irfan Abid
Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

aadaab Irfan sahib.

Post by Irfan Abid
Thanks a lot for sharing my qat'a with your dad and his thoughts with me. Please convey my gratitude and deepest regards to your dad.

You are most welcome. Totally my pleasure, from both ends.

Post by Irfan Abid
An acquaintance on social media expressed concerns today that the collective secular/socialist/Gandhian philosophy of the (political) opposition in India seems to have died in the tirade of hate and bigotry launched by those in power, and wondered when it will be reestablished among the people. A she'r was born in my mind after reading his thoughts, which is my she'r of the day.
zamaanaa jab kahegaa, bujh chukii hai aag ab saarii
taRap kar raakh se niklegii ik Khaamosh chingaarii

kyaa hii hasb-e-Haal she'r hai, bahut Khuub. daad qubuul kiijiye.
Your acquaintance's concerns are generally valid. However, one of the highlights of my current stay in Punjab is that I have in person witnessed general public's enthusiastic reactions to the most recent election results. Everybody seems to be infused with a new hope for a brighter future for the state. To quote dad's response to your she'r, "A spark has been ignited here, hopefully the flames of positive change will spread."

Post by Irfan Abid
Sincerely,

Thanks,
________Zoya

Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

Thanks for the appreciation! It's good to know that people of Punjab are buoyed by AAP's win. I wish their hopes come true. I had a strong admiration for this party and its leadership for a long time, but a couple of recent experiences have begun to change my view. But I don't want to delve into it here. I try to keep politics out of this forum and only discuss it when necessary, such as when giving you the context for the she'r I shared.

Speaking of context, I don't think I need to give one for the she'r I am sharing today. This one was also born recently and has spawned a complete Ghazal. I am still working on the Ghazal, but here is the she'r (matla') for you:

kyaa kareN tan ko libaasoN meN chhupaane vaale
noch lete haiN ridaa sar se zamaane vaale

Sincerely,
Irfan :Abid:

[Amit Malhotra]

Post by Irfan Abid

Post by Irfan Abid
zamaanaa jab kahegaa, bujh chukii hai aag ab saarii
taRap kar raakh se niklegii ik Khaamosh chingaarii

kyaa kareN tan ko libaasoN meN chhupaane vaale
noch lete haiN ridaa sar se zamaane vaale

waah! on both of them. Especially the first one...

[Irfan Abid]

Post by Irfan Abid

Post by Irfan Abid
zamaanaa jab kahegaa, bujh chukii hai aag ab saarii
taRap kar raakh se niklegii ik Khaamosh chingaarii

kyaa kareN tan ko libaasoN meN chhupaane vaale
noch lete haiN ridaa sar se zamaane vaale

waah! on both of them. Especially the first one...

Amit sb, aadaab!

What a pleasant surprise! Glad to see you here after a long time. Hope all is well.

Irfan :Abid:

[Zoya]

Post by Irfan Abid
Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

aadaab, Irfan sahib,

Post by Irfan Abid
Thanks for the appreciation! It's good to know that people of Punjab are buoyed by AAP's win. I wish their hopes come true. I had a strong admiration for this party and its leadership for a long time, but a couple of recent experiences have begun to change my view. But I don't want to delve into it here. I try to keep politics out of this forum and only discuss it when necessary, such as when giving you the context for the she'r I shared.

Yes, having repeatedly tried options A and B, most people here seem to believe that option 'C' will work better, hope they will not be disillusioned. And I totally understand and second your position about generally staying away from politics in this forum, except when in context of poetry.

Post by Irfan Abid
kyaa kareN tan ko libaasoN meN chhupaane vaale
noch lete haiN ridaa sar se zamaane vaale

Irfan sahib, you have a true gift to be able to convey your feelings about intense topics in a subtle, poetic way. I will look forward to reading this complete ghazal.

Post by Irfan Abid
Sincerely,

_______ Zoya

[Zoya]

abhi kal hi meri Amjad Islam Amjad sahib se baat ho rahi thi to maiN ne Hasb-e-ma'muul un se apnaa koii she'r sunaane ki farmai'sh kii.

so pesh haiN aaj ke asha'ar:

kuchh vazaaHat na iltijaa kiije
sach kahaa hai to Hauslaa kiije

jhuuT se bhii buraa hai aadhaa sach
is se behtar hai chup rahaa kiije

lafz se se bhii Kharaash paRtii hai
tabsiraa soch kar kiyaa kiije

Amjad Islam Amjad

________Zoya

[Irfan Abid]

Post by Zoya
abhi kal hi meri Amjad Islam Amjad sahib se baat ho rahi thi to maiN ne Hasb-e-ma'muul un se apnaa koii she'r sunaane ki farmai'sh kii.
kuchh vazaaHat na iltijaa kiije
sach kahaa hai to Hauslaa kiije
jhuuT se bhii buraa hai aadhaa sach
is se behtar hai chup rahaa kiije
lafz se se bhii Kharaash paRtii hai
tabsiraa soch kar kiyaa kiije
Amjad Islam Amjad
________Zoya

Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

bahut Khuub! This is Amjad sb's signature stuff.

I had the pleasure of meeting and listening to 'Saud' Usmani sb who was the sadr of the musharia I attended yesterday. Here is a she'r he recited.

ragoN meN jamte hue ḳhuun kii tarah hai 'Saud'
vo harf-e-hijr jo us ne abhii kahaa bhii nahiiN (Saud Usmani)

Irfan :Abid:

[Zoya]

Post by Irfan Abid
I had the pleasure of meeting and listening to 'Saud' Usmani sb who was the sadr of the musharia I attended yesterday. Here is a she'r he recited.

Irfan sahib, Sorry for a little delay in replying. I've been in transit, and then jet lagged, also catching up on a lot of stuff at home.

Post by Irfan Abid
ragoN meN jamte hue ḳhuun kii tarah hai 'Saud'
vo harf-e-hijr jo us ne abhii kahaa bhii nahiiN (Saud Usmani)

bahut Khuub. is she'r ko paRh kar mere zehn meN besaaKhtaa do asha'ar aa rahe haiN, donoN hi sunte jaaiye.

pehle Faraz:

yeh qurb kyaa hai k tuu saamne hai aur hameN
shumaar abhi se judaaii ki sa'ateN karnii

aur phir Jaun Eliya:

kyaa kahaa ishq jaavedaanii hai
aaKhrii baar mil rahii ho kyaa??
ab aap yeh bataaiye k aap ne us mehfil meN apnii kaun sii ghazal (eN) sunaaii(N)? yaqiinan sabhii ko aap ka kalaam pasand aayaa ho gaa.

______Zoya

[Irfan Abid]

Post by Zoya

Post by Irfan Abid
I had the pleasure of meeting and listening to 'Saud' Usmani sb who was the sadr of the musharia I attended yesterday. Here is a she'r he recited.

Irfan sahib, Sorry for a little delay in replying. I've been in transit, and then jet lagged, also catching up on a lot of stuff at home.

Post by Irfan Abid
ragoN meN jamte hue ḳhuun kii tarah hai 'Saud'
vo harf-e-hijr jo us ne abhii kahaa bhii nahiiN (Saud Usmani)

bahut Khuub. is she'r ko paRh kar mere zehn meN besaaKhtaa do asha'ar aa rahe haiN, donoN hi sunte jaaiye.
yeh qurb kyaa hai k tuu saamne hai aur hameN
shumaar abhi se judaaii ki sa'ateN karnii
kyaa kahaa ishq jaavedaanii hai
aaKhrii baar mil rahii ho kyaa??
ab aap yeh bataaiye k aap ne us mehfil meN apnii kaun sii ghazal (eN) sunaaii(N)? yaqiinan sabhii ko aap ka kalaam pasand aayaa ho gaa.
______Zoya

Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

Welcome back and thanks for sharing two wonderful ash'aar! I recited a couple of qat'aat and two Ghazals. I am sharing a qat'a here and posting a Ghazal in a separate thread.

tadbiir-e-ihtiyaat kaa aalam na puuchhiye
har ek naao Thahre hue paaniyoN meN hai
saahil pe jaa pahuNchne kii Khvaahish bajaa, magar
lutf-e-safar to asl meN tuGhyaaniyoN meN hai!

niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:

[Zoya]

Post by Irfan Abid
Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

aadaab Irfan sahib,

Post by Irfan Abid
Welcome back and thanks for sharing two wonderful ash'aar!

Thank you Irfan sahib. You can tell I had a lot more free time while in India, ahhhh how I miss the full time cook and cleaner, and the personal chauffeur! :)

I recited a couple of qat'aat and two Ghazals. I am sharing a qat'a here and posting a Ghazal in a separate thread.

Post by Irfan Abid
tadbiir-e-ihtiyaat kaa aalam na puuchhiye
har ek naao Thahre hue paaniyoN meN hai
saahil pe jaa pahuNchne kii Khvaahish bajaa, magar
lutf-e-safar to asl meN tuGhyaaniyoN meN hai!

I just love the tarkiib "tadbiir-e-ihtiyaat", I don't think I have seen it before. Brilliant. Planning to be cautious, hmmmmm, doesn't always work though. But then of course you are talking about the fun on the flip side in the second half of the qat'aa. Very nice. daad qubuul kiijiye.

Post by Irfan Abid
niyaazmand,

Thanks for sharing.

_______Zoya

[Irfan Abid]

Post by Zoya

Post by Irfan Abid
Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

aadaab Irfan sahib,

Post by Irfan Abid
Welcome back and thanks for sharing two wonderful ash'aar!

Thank you Irfan sahib. You can tell I had a lot more free time while in India, ahhhh how I miss the full time cook and cleaner, and the personal chauffeur! :)
I recited a couple of qat'aat and two Ghazals. I am sharing a qat'a here and posting a Ghazal in a separate thread.

Post by Irfan Abid
tadbiir-e-ihtiyaat kaa aalam na puuchhiye
har ek naao Thahre hue paaniyoN meN hai
saahil pe jaa pahuNchne kii Khvaahish bajaa, magar
lutf-e-safar to asl meN tuGhyaaniyoN meN hai!

I just love the tarkiib "tadbiir-e-ihtiyaat", I don't think I have seen it before. Brilliant. Planning to be cautious, hmmmmm, doesn't always work though. But then of course you are talking about the fun on the flip side in the second half of the qat'aa. Very nice. daad qubuul kiijiye.

Post by Irfan Abid
niyaazmand,

Thanks for sharing.
_______Zoya

Zoya sahiba, aadaab!

Thanks a lot for the appreciation! Here is another qat'a I presented in the mushaira.

qudrat kaa faislaa hai, kuchh bhii na munjamid ho
vaqt-e-ravaaN kii rau meN har shai pighal rahii hai
ham hii meN aib thaa jo taa umr ham na badle
varnaa to raftaa raftaa dunyaa badal rahii hai

niyaazmand,
Irfan :Abid:

[Mohit]

Ishq karte hain us parii-ru se,
'meer' sahib bhi kya deewane hain... - you-know-who

[Raj Kumar]

Post by Mohit
Ishq karte hain us parii-ru se,
'meer' sahib bhi kya deewane hain... - you-know-who

***Mohit sahib, aaj kal har zii-hosh shaKhs maHfil-e-ALUP ka ruKh karne se gurez karta hai. aek aap haiN k, hosh-o-Havaas ko baalaa-e-taaq rakh kar, idhar aa nikle haiN. Same here!

Huzuur, aap ke pesh-karda she'r meN, az-ruu-e-baHr, saHiiH lafz "divaane" hai, "deevaane"nahiiN hai! ain usi taraH jaise Miir ke is she'r meN

dhuum hai phir bahaar aane kii
kuchh karo fikr mujh divaane kii

R.K.***

[Mohit]

Post by Raj Kumar

Post by Mohit
Ishq karte hain us parii-ru se,
'meer' sahib bhi kya deewane hain... - you-know-who

***Mohit sahib, aaj kal har zii-hosh shaKhs maHfil-e-ALUP ka ruKh karne se gurez karta hai. aek aap haiN k, hosh-o-Havaas ko baalaa-e-taaq rakh kar, idhar aa nikle haiN. Same here!
Huzuur, aap ke pesh-karda she'r meN, az-ruu-e-baHr, saHiiH lafz "divaane" hai, "deevaane"nahiiN hai! ain usi taraH jaise Miir ke is she'r meN
dhuum hai phir bahaar aane kii
kuchh karo fikr mujh divaane kii
R.K.***

Sir muaafi, I have read urdu in Devnaagri probably that's the reason of my errors, sincerely apologise for the same... baaki ALUP padhta rehta hoon... itni jaldi nahi chhodkar jaaunga

my all time favorite
hazrat-e-daagh jahaN baith gaye, baith gaye,
aur hoNge tirii mehfil se ubharne wale...

[Zoya]

ek she'r pichchle dinoN Shoaib sahib se sunaa tha. yeh to mujhe nahiiN ma'alum k she'r hai kis kaa, magar yeh mere zehn meN aTkaa hua hai. sochaa aap sab ko bhi sunaati chaluuN:

go tark-e-ta'alluq meN bhii shaamil haiN kaii dukh
be_kaif ta'alluq ke bhii aazaar bahut haiN!

[Zoya]

Post by Mohit
Sir muaafi, I have read urdu in Devnaagri probably that's the reason of my errors, sincerely apologise for the same... baaki ALUP padhta rehta hoon... itni jaldi nahi chhodkar jaaunga
my all time favorite
hazrat-e-daagh jahaN baith gaye, baith gaye,
aur hoNge tirii mehfil se ubharne wale...

Mohit, aap ki is baat aur is she'r par to maiN bas yahii keh sakti huuN:

hazrat-e-Daagh, hai yeh kuucha-e-qaatil uThiye
jis jagah baiThte haiN aap to jam jaate haiN! :-)

[Mohit]

Post by Zoya
hazrat-e-Daagh, hai yeh kuucha-e-qaatil uThiye
jis jagah baiThte haiN aap to jam jaate haiN! :-)

aur mam is sher par mujhe ye sher yaad aaya

ab to jaate haiñ but-kade se 'meer'
phir mileNge agar ḳhuda laaya :)

[Raj Kumar]

Post by Mohit

Post by Zoya
hazrat-e-Daagh, hai yeh kuucha-e-qaatil uThiye
jis jagah baiThte haiN aap to jam jaate haiN! :-)

aur mam is sher par mujhe ye sher yaad aaya
ab to jaate haiñ but-kade se 'meer'
phir mileNge agar ḳhuda laaya :)

***aap kaheN ge "phir aa gayaa GhalatiyaaN nikaalne vaalaa". kyaa karuuN, Mohit ji, aadat se majbuur huuN. :-)

mere Khayaal meN, yahaaN "but-kade" ki bajaaye "mai-kade" hona chaahiye. Please double check!

R.K.***

[Mohit]

sir mujhe bhi mai-kada yaad tha, lekin is baar reference Rekhta se liya hai...

***aap kaheN ge "phir aa gayaa GhalatiyaaN nikaalne vaalaa". kyaa karuuN, Mohit ji, aadat se majbuur huuN. :-)
mere Khayaal meN, yahaaN "but-kade" ki bajaaye "mai-kade" hona chaahiye. Please double check!
R.K.***

[Naseer]

Post by Mohit

Post by Zoya
hazrat-e-Daagh, hai yeh kuucha-e-qaatil uThiye
jis jagah baiThte haiN aap to jam jaate haiN! :-)

aur mam is sher par mujhe ye sher yaad aaya
ab to jaate haiñ but-kade se 'meer'
phir mileNge agar ḳhuda laaya :)

***aap kaheN ge "phir aa gayaa GhalatiyaaN nikaalne vaalaa". kyaa karuuN, Mohit ji, aadat se majbuur huuN. :-)
mere Khayaal meN, yahaaN "but-kade" ki bajaaye "mai-kade" hona chaahiye. Please double check!
R.K.***

Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab 3arz hai

Mohit SaaHib kaa tahriir-kardah shi3r durust hai. yih shi3r Meer ke diivaan-i-avval kii Ghazal no.85 kaa maqta3 hai.

aap kaa xair-andesh,
Naseer

[Raj Kumar]

Post by Naseer

Post by Mohit

Post by Zoya
hazrat-e-Daagh, hai yeh kuucha-e-qaatil uThiye
jis jagah baiThte haiN aap to jam jaate haiN! :-)

aur mam is sher par mujhe ye sher yaad aaya
ab to jaate haiñ but-kade se 'meer'
phir mileNge agar ḳhuda laaya :)

***aap kaheN ge "phir aa gayaa GhalatiyaaN nikaalne vaalaa". kyaa karuuN, Mohit ji, aadat se majbuur huuN. :-)
mere Khayaal meN, yahaaN "but-kade" ki bajaaye "mai-kade" hona chaahiye. Please double check!
R.K.***

Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab 3arz hai
Mohit SaaHib kaa tahriir-kardah shi3r durust hai. yih shi3r Meer ke diivaan-i-avval kii Ghazal no.85 kaa maqta3 hai.
aap kaa xair-andesh,
Naseer

***janaab Mohit sahib v Naseer sahib:

aap donoN Hazraat ka is Khush-Khabari ke liye shukriya k --------- ab ki baar ReKhta durust Thaihraa! :-)

B/W, arz hai maiN ne roz-e-avval hi se is misr'e ko lafz "mai-kade" ke saath sunaa hai. aaj pahli baar is baat ka aHsaas hu'aa k yahaaN asl lafz "but-kade" hai. mere paas aek kitaab hai jis ka unvaan hai "zarb-ul-masal ash'aar". is kitaab ko tarteeb dii hai mohtarma Sarvat Sultaana Sarvat ne. is kitaab meN yeh she'r lafz "mai-kade" ke saath darj hai. mere liye yeh kahna mushkil hai k yeh saaHiba kahaaN tak mo'tabar haiN.

duusri baat yeh k ham ALUPers ne ReKhta ko kayee baar Ghalat paaya hai. albatta, mujhe yaqeen hai k Naseer sahib ka javaab zaruur kisi mo'tabar maaKhiz par mabni hoga.

Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar

[Naseer]

Post by Naseer

Post by Mohit

Post by Zoya
hazrat-e-Daagh, hai yeh kuucha-e-qaatil uThiye
jis jagah baiThte haiN aap to jam jaate haiN! :-)

aur mam is sher par mujhe ye sher yaad aaya
ab to jaate haiñ but-kade se 'meer'
phir mileNge agar ḳhuda laaya :)

***aap kaheN ge "phir aa gayaa GhalatiyaaN nikaalne vaalaa". kyaa karuuN, Mohit ji, aadat se majbuur huuN. :-)
mere Khayaal meN, yahaaN "but-kade" ki bajaaye "mai-kade" hona chaahiye. Please double check!
R.K.***

Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab 3arz hai
Mohit SaaHib kaa tahriir-kardah shi3r durust hai. yih shi3r Meer ke diivaan-i-avval kii Ghazal no.85 kaa maqta3 hai.
aap kaa xair-andesh,
Naseer

aap donoN Hazraat ka is Khush-Khabari ke liye shukriya k --------- ab ki baar ReKhta durust Thaihraa! :-)
B/W, arz hai maiN ne roz-e-avval hi se is misr'e ko lafz "mai-kade" ke saath sunaa hai. aaj pahli baar is baat ka aHsaas hu'aa k yahaaN asl lafz "but-kade" hai. mere paas aek kitaab hai jis ka unvaan hai "zarb-ul-masal ash'aar". is kitaab ko tarteeb dii hai mohtarma Sarvat Sultaana Sarvat ne. is kitaab meN yeh she'r lafz "mai-kade" ke saath darj hai. mere liye yeh kahna mushkil hai k yeh saaHiba kahaaN tak mo'tabar haiN.
duusri baat yeh k ham ALUPers ne ReKhta ko kayee baar Ghalat paaya hai. albatta, mujhe yaqeen hai k Naseer sahib ka javaab zaruur kisi mo'tabar maaKhiz par mabni hoga.
Khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar

moHtaram Raj Kumar SaaHib, aadaab.

Huzuur is meN hamaaraa kyaa qusuur hai agar aap is shi3r ko roz-i-avval hii se Ghalat sun rahe haiN! :-) muHtaramah Sarvat Sultanah, haiN to professor lekin achchaa hotaa vuh is shi3r kii siHHat par thoRii taftiish kar letiiN! mere mu3tabir hone par aap ko rattii-bhar shakk nahiiN honaa chaahiye lekin agar aap kaa iimaan qadre kam-zor hai to bandah aap kii xidmat-i-3aaliyah meN kuchh subuut pesh kartaa hai.

jis kitaab se maiN ne is shi3r ko talaash kiyaa, us kaa naam hai "kulliyaat-i-Meer" aur ise Zill-i-Abbas Abbasi ne murattab kiyaa hai aur taraqqii-i-Urdu bureau, na'ii sihlii ne 1983 meN shaa'i3 kiyaa hai. is ke shuruu3 meN chand daanishvaroN ne apne mazaamiin shaamil kiye haiN jin meN aap ke "guruu" janaab-i-Professor Raghupati Sahay "Firaq" bhii jalvah-afroz haiN. diigar Hazraat haiN, Professor Rasheed Ahmed Siddiqi, Qazi Abdul Waduud, Professor Aal-e-Ahmad Suroor aur Zill-i-Abbas Abbasi.

Professor Aal-e-Ahmad Suroor farmaate haiN, "Meer kii kulliyaat kaa vuh edition jo Naval Kishor Press ne aaxirii baar shaa'i3 kiaa thaa aur jis kii siHHat Abdulbari Aasi ne kii thii ab kahiiN dastyaab nahiiN hotaa (1). Ibadat Barelvi ne Pakistan se kulliyaat-i-Meer kaa ek nayaa edition ek taviil muqaddime ke saath shaa'i3 kiyaa thaa, us ke matn meN bahut sii GhalatiyaaN raah paa ga'ii thiiN magar yih bhii ab Hindustan meN nahiiN mil saktaa (2). is liye kulliyaat-i-Meer kii ek aise mustanad edition kii zaruurat saxtii se maHsuus kii jaa rahii thii jo diidah-zeb bhii ho. xushii kii baat hai kih zer-i-nazar edition is zaruurat ko baRii Had tak puuraa kartaa hai. vaise adabii dunyaa meN Harf-i-aaxir to ko'ii bhii nahiiN hotaa."(3)

(1) In the 1941 edition, this shi3r is give as;

buto jaate haiN but-kade se Meer
phir mileN ge agar xudaa laayaa

(2) In the 1958 edition, the shi3r is..

ab to jaate haiN but-kade se Meer
phir mileN ge agar xudaa laayaa

(3) This is the book I've quoted from and the shi3r is as in (2) above.

In 1960, Sayyid Ja'fri compiled "diivaan-i-Meer" in which the shi3r as per (2). Later in 1972, Sayyid Ihtisham Hussain compiled a kulliyaat in which this shi3r is also as per (2).

The earliest nusxah for "diivaan-i-Meer" is the "nusxah-i-Mahmoodabad" written down in 1203 hijrii (1788), twenty three years prior to Meer's death. This has been compiled by Doctor Akbar Haidari. AND the shi3r in question is quoted as:

ab to jaate haiN *but-kade* se Meer
phir mileN ge agar xudaa laayaa

(emphasis mine!:-))

I think it makes more sense for "xudaa" to bring Meer back to a "but-kadah", than to a "mai-kadah". After all, "xudaa" has to compete with the other xudaas in the but-kadah!

Naseer

PS "aHsaas" or "iHsaas" ba-vazn-i-insaaf-o-inkaar"?

[Zoya]

Gentlemen, aadaab,

Post by Naseer
ab to jaate haiN *but-kade* se Meer
phir mileN ge agar xudaa laayaa

baat butkade se chali thi aur maiKhaane se hoti hui phir butkade par hii Khatm ho rahi hai, to maiN ne sochaa Riyaz Khairabadi kaa yeh she'r aap sab ko sunaati chaluuN:

dunyaa se alag ham ne maiKhaane ka dar dekhaa
maiKhaane ka dar dekhaa, Allah ka ghar dekhaa!

Post by Naseer
Naseer
PS "aHsaas" or "iHsaas" ba-vazn-i-insaaf-o-inkaar"?

Naseer sahib, Prof RK dekhiye idhar kab aate haiN, soch rahi huuN kyuN na maiN hii aap ke is savaal kaa javaab deti chaluN.

jii haaN, aH-saa-s, in-saa-f, aur in-kaa-r, tiinoN bavazn haiN, 2-2-1.

________Zoya

[Naseer]

Post by Zoya

Post by Naseer
PS "aHsaas" or "iHsaas" ba-vazn-i-insaaf-o-inkaar"?

Naseer sahib, Prof RK dekhiye idhar kab aate haiN, soch rahi huuN kyuN na maiN hii aap ke is savaal kaa javaab deti chaluN.
jii haaN, aH-saa-s, in-saa-f, aur in-kaa-r, tiinoN bavazn haiN, 2-2-1.
________Zoya

No, you'e misunderstood what I was trying to say, Zoya SaaHibah.

Raj Kumar SaaHib wrote "aHsaas" and I am suggesting to him (baRii 3aajizii ke saath) that the word is iHsaas, just like iqraar, inkaar, insaaf (all with alif zer and not alif zabar). Another word that is similarly mispronounced is "iHsaan". I pray and hope all is well with Professor SaaHib.

Naseer

[Mohit]

ishq ik 'meer' bhaari patthar hai,
kab ye tujh naa-tawaaN se uthTa hai

[Mohit]

ye dil, ye pagal dil mera, kyun bujh gaya awaargi,
is dasht meiN ik shahar tha, wo kya hua awaargi... - Mohsin Naqvi

Post by Mohit
ishq ik 'meer' bhaari patthar hai,
kab ye tujh naa-tawaaN se uthTa hai

[Zoya]

Post by Mohit
ye dil, ye pagal dil mera, kyun bujh gaya awaargi,
is dasht meiN ik shahar tha, wo kya hua awaargi... - Mohsin Naqvi

haaN yeh viiraanaa, yeh dil, yeh aarzuuoN kaa mazaar
tum kaho to phir ise aabaad kar letaa huN maiN! :)

[Mohit]

Post by Zoya
haaN yeh viiraanaa, yeh dil, yeh aarzuuoN kaa mazaar
tum kaho to phir ise aabaad kar letaa huN maiN! :)

aap aaye janaab barsoN meiN,
humne pi hai sharab barsoN meiN - Rustam Sehgal 'Wafa'

[Zoya]

Post by Mohit
aap aaye janaab barsoN meiN,
humne pi hai sharab barsoN meiN - Rustam Sehgal 'Wafa'

goya:

aamad pe terii itr-o-charaagh-o-subuu na hoN
itnaa bhii buud-o-baash ko saada nahiiN kiyaa!

The one and only Parveen Shakir :)

[Mohit]

Post by Zoya
aamad pe terii itr-o-charaagh-o-subuu na hoN
itnaa bhii buud-o-baash ko saada nahiiN kiyaa!
The one and only Parveen Shakir :)

kisne dastak di ye dil par kaun hai,
Aap to andar haiN baahar kaun hai... - Rahat Indori

[Zoya]

Post by Mohit
kisne dastak di ye dil par kaun hai,
Aap to andar haiN baahar kaun hai... - Rahat Indori

Nice. Mohit, yeh she'r mujhe bhi pasand hai. ise maiN ne ek mehfil meN Khud Rahat Indori sahib kii zubaani sunaa tha, un kaa sunaane kaa andaaz bhi bahut lutf_aNdoz tha.

aur is she'r ko sun kar aksar mere zehn meN Bahir Badr kaa yeh she'r aayaa kartaa hai:

na jaane kab tire dil par naii si dastak ho
makaan Khaali huaa hai to koi aayegaa!

[Mohit]

ik tere ehtaram se chalte haiN seena taan kar,
naaz ho jata hai paida tera kehlaane ke baad - ( read it long time back in a random book, so unsure about the technicalities of the sher )

Post by Zoya
na jaane kab tire dil par naii si dastak ho
makaan Khaali huaa hai to koi aayegaa!

[Zoya]

Post by Mohit
ik tere ehtaram se chalte haiN seena taan kar,
naaz ho jata hai paida tera kehlaane ke baad - ( read it long time back in a random book, so unsure about the technicalities of the sher )

Mohit, nice attitude in this she'r. And it is perfectly in meter, no worries. :)

Now that the Covid curve is on a decreasing path, the still-masked-me is getting more comfortable with some indoor gatherings. Last night I attended a mehfil featuring a classical singer, who is a disciple of Shanti Hiranand who had trained directly under the legendary Begam Akhtar. It was amazing singing, Thumri, daadra, kajri, awadhi folk and best of all some Begam Akhtar ghazals that are like nursery rhymes for me, I spent my entire childhood, starting at about age two, listening to those timeless compositions!

ab is saari bhuumika ke ba'ad aap voh she'r suniye jo kal raat se mere zehn meN ghuum rahaa hai, an old favorite that I quote often:

jise aap ginte the aashnaa, jise aap kehte the baavafaa
maiN vahii huN Momin-e-mubtalaa, tumheN yaad ho k na yaad ho

[Zoya]

Post by Zoya
jise aap ginte the aashnaa, jise aap kehte the baavafaa
maiN vahii huN Momin-e-mubtalaa, tumheN yaad ho k na yaad ho

To get the full effect of what I am saying, you have to listen to the entire ghazal, more than once, aur phir yeh aap ke dil-o-dimaagh meN bhii ghuumne lagegii. :)

Here is a link:

_______Zoya

[Mohit]

ma'm first heard this sher from Chitra ji's ghazal, one of the oldest composition of Jagjit Singh... one of my fav album Rare Gems...

aaj ka sher Haqeem Momin sab ka hi hai

tum humare kisi tarah na hue,
warna dunia mein kya nahi hota...

Post by Zoya

Post by Zoya
jise aap ginte the aashnaa, jise aap kehte the baavafaa
maiN vahii huN Momin-e-mubtalaa, tumheN yaad ho k na yaad ho

To get the full effect of what I am saying, you have to listen to the entire ghazal, more than once, aur phir yeh aap ke dil-o-dimaagh meN bhii ghuumne lagegii. :)
http://youtu.be/Uzq1rpuFMig
_______Zoya

[Zoya]

Post by Mohit
ma'm first heard this sher from Chitra ji's ghazal, one of the oldest composition of Jagjit Singh... one of my fav album Rare Gems...
http://youtu.be/umrX8JCeiAs

Yes, many different singers have sung this ghazal over the years, but I am particularly biased towards Begam Akhtar version, my first love. :)

Post by Mohit
aaj ka sher Haqeem Momin sab ka hi hai
tum humare kisi tarah na hue,
warna dunia mein kya nahi hota...

hakiim Momin kii is ghazal kaa zikr ho rahaa hai, phir yeh she'r to laazim hai:

tum mire paas hote ho goyaa
jab koii duusraa nahiiN hotaa

[Dinesh Shenoy]

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 9:39:50 AM UTC-6, Zoya wrote:
<snip>

Post by Zoya
jise aap ginte the aashnaa, jise aap kehte the baavafaa
maiN vahii huN Momin-e-mubtalaa, tumheN yaad ho k na yaad ho

One of the other sher from this GHazal that I really like is ...

koī baat aisī agar huī ki tumhāre "jī" ko burī lagī
to bayāñ se pahle hī bhūlnā tumheñ yaad ho ki na yaad ho

Dinesh

[Zoya]

Post by Dinesh Shenoy
One of the other sher from this GHazal that I really like is ...
koī baat aisī agar huī ki tumhāre "jī" ko burī lagī
to bayāñ se pahle hī bhūlnā tumheñ yaad ho ki na yaad ho
Dinesh

Dinesh sahib,

Very interesting that you have brought up this particular she'r. Every time I read this ghazal, I have always paused over this she'r. I find it sort of intriguing, perhaps because I find this qaafia to be somewhat unexpected. I mean unless I have already uttered the "baat", how would I know that 'tumhaare jii ko burii lagii'? This is the ambiguity that makes me pause and perhaps expect the qaafia to be different. Maybe something like "bayaaN se pehle hi Toknaa", like you are about to say something insensitive, the other person sees it coming and stops you in your tracks.

Of course, I dare not question any she'r of Momin, I am totally unqualified to do so. However, I wanted to share my thoughts on this one, since I have pondered over it more than once. Let us see if I am making sense to anyone else, including you.

________Zoya

[Zoya]

Post by Dinesh Shenoy
koī baat aisī agar huī ki tumhāre "jī" ko burī lagī
to bayāñ se pahle hī bhūlnā tumheñ yaad ho ki na yaad ho

PS:
Still thinking out loud.
One way I interpret this she'r to make good sense is this:
"Whenever I said something unpleasant, you were so nice that you forgot it even before you responded, do you still remember that??"

I do, what a loss! :-)

[Naseer]

Post by bekas Murray

Post by Zoya

Post by bekas Murray
A phrase that is also used is khaamosh tamaashaa'i

I like this phrase, silent spectator, can have many different connotations.

Another phrase that is used is summun, bukkun, ummiyun

summun, bukmun, 3umyun [fa-hum laa yarji3uun] {Qur'an 2:18}

They are (wilfully) deaf, dumb, and blind, [so they will not return] (to the Right Path)

Naseer

[Naseer]

Post by Dinesh Shenoy

Post by Irfan Abid
Zoya sahiba,
Let me repeat this hindi couplet here ...
समर शेष है, नहीं पाप का भागी केवल व्याध
जो तटस्थ हैं, समय लिखेगा उनके भी अपराध
samar shesh hai, nahiiN paap kaa bhaagi keval vyaadh
jO taTasth haiN, samay likhega unke bhii aparaadh
Dinesh

samar, shesh, vyaadh, taTasth
Thanks in advance,
R.K.***

RK sahib, "namaste" ... since we are talking about a hindi kavita :)
samar shesh hai, nahiiN paap kaa bhaagi keval vyaadh
jO taTasth haiN, samay likhega unke bhii aparaadh
-- Raamdhaari Singh Dinakar
samar = war/fight; jung in urdu?
shesh = left; baaqii in urdu?
vyaadh = hunter/oppressor; shikaarii in urdu?
taTasth=neutral/indifferent, One who does not side with any party in a war or dispute; RK sahib, please recommend a good urdu word
aparaadh=crime
Here is a loose translation ... which can never match the impact the original couplet creates ...
The fight is still on, the hunter/oppressor alone is not accountable for the crimes (being committed)
Time will judge/blame those who are opting to remain neutral/indifferent
Dinesh

Dinesh SaaHib, aadaab.

Thank you once again for this quote. It's all very well to quote poetry of this type along with Faiz Ahmed Faiz's "bol kih lab aazaad haiN tere..., Pastor Martin Niemöller's "First they came for socialists, and I did not speak out..." and Martin Luther King's "A time comes when silence is betrayal". The question is what can ordinary people like us do to stem the kinds of crimes you mention in your quote. I suppose one can write to people in authority, take part in demonstrations and the like but this is easier in some countries than others. Having said this, I have done my best (I think) and taken part in these activities.

There are of course people who speak out and are continuing to speak put. Examples of these are Arundhati Roy, Karan Thapar, Naseeruddin Shah, Norman Finklestein, Gideon Levy, George Galloway and many more.

A friend of mine once said to me, "Naseer, don't discuss religion and politics with your friends. If you do, you will loose their friendship." There is a lot of wisdom in this. I tried to "spread the message" to a few people I knew. One of my English friends whose faith I was not aware of, does not see me as a friend any more. Two Sikh friends don't really see any problem in what's happening in India and are no longer communicating with me. Two or three Hindu friends do not respond at all about these matters. So, it seems to be a waste of time and there is no point speaking to the "converted"! So, I don't know if I am still betraying the victims or not.

Naseer

[Naseer]

Post by Dinesh Shenoy

Post by Irfan Abid
Zoya sahiba,
Let me repeat this hindi couplet here ...
समर शेष है, नहीं पाप का भागी केवल व्याध
जो तटस्थ हैं, समय लिखेगा उनके भी अपराध
samar shesh hai, nahiiN paap kaa bhaagi keval vyaadh
jO taTasth haiN, samay likhega unke bhii aparaadh
Dinesh

samar, shesh, vyaadh, taTasth
Thanks in advance,
R.K.***

RK sahib, "namaste" ... since we are talking about a hindi kavita :)
samar shesh hai, nahiiN paap kaa bhaagi keval vyaadh
jO taTasth haiN, samay likhega unke bhii aparaadh
-- Raamdhaari Singh Dinakar
samar = war/fight; jung in urdu?
shesh = left; baaqii in urdu?
vyaadh = hunter/oppressor; shikaarii in urdu?
taTasth=neutral/indifferent, One who does not side with any party in a war or dispute; RK sahib, please recommend a good urdu word
aparaadh=crime
Here is a loose translation ... which can never match the impact the original couplet creates ...
The fight is still on, the hunter/oppressor alone is not accountable for the crimes (being committed)
Time will judge/blame those who are opting to remain neutral/indifferent
Dinesh

Dinesh SaaHib, I've checked a couple of dictionaries and they don't don't provide the meaning for "vyaadha" as "opressor" but only give "hunter".

My attempt at re-writing this couplet in Urdu. Hopefully, RK SaaHib will correct the vazn etc.

jang jaarii hai, nahiiN jurm meN shariik faqat saiyyaad (hunter)
jo laa-parvaa haiN vaqt likhe gaa un kii bhii be-daad (injustice)

Perhaps "faqat" can be changed to "sirf" to add a bit of alliteration.

Naseer

[bekas Murray]

Post by Naseer

Post by Dinesh Shenoy

Post by Irfan Abid
Zoya sahiba,
Let me repeat this hindi couplet here ...
समर शेष है, नहीं पाप का भागी केवल व्याध
जो तटस्थ हैं, समय लिखेगा उनके भी अपराध
samar shesh hai, nahiiN paap kaa bhaagi keval vyaadh
jO taTasth haiN, samay likhega unke bhii aparaadh
Dinesh

samar, shesh, vyaadh, taTasth
Thanks in advance,
R.K.***

RK sahib, "namaste" ... since we are talking about a hindi kavita :)
samar shesh hai, nahiiN paap kaa bhaagi keval vyaadh
jO taTasth haiN, samay likhega unke bhii aparaadh
-- Raamdhaari Singh Dinakar
samar = war/fight; jung in urdu?
shesh = left; baaqii in urdu?
vyaadh = hunter/oppressor; shikaarii in urdu?
taTasth=neutral/indifferent, One who does not side with any party in a war or dispute; RK sahib, please recommend a good urdu word
aparaadh=crime
Here is a loose translation ... which can never match the impact the original couplet creates ...
The fight is still on, the hunter/oppressor alone is not accountable for the crimes (being committed)
Time will judge/blame those who are opting to remain neutral/indifferent
Dinesh

Dinesh SaaHib, I've checked a couple of dictionaries and they don't don't provide the meaning for "vyaadha" as "opressor" but only give "hunter".
My attempt at re-writing this couplet in Urdu. Hopefully, RK SaaHib will correct the vazn etc.
jang jaarii hai, nahiiN jurm meN shariik faqat saiyyaad (hunter)
jo laa-parvaa haiN vaqt likhe gaa un kii bhii be-daad (injustice)
Perhaps "faqat" can be changed to "sirf" to add a bit of alliteration.
Naseer

لاتعلق کھڑے جو یہ بے حس ہیں سب وقت ان بےحسوں کا کرے گا حساب
laat'aalluq kharay jo ye bayhiss hain sab, waqt in bay hisoN ka karay ga hisaab

[bekas Murray]

Post by Naseer

Post by Dinesh Shenoy

Post by Irfan Abid
Zoya sahiba,
Let me repeat this hindi couplet here ...
समर शेष है, नहीं पाप का भागी केवल व्याध
जो तटस्थ हैं, समय लिखेगा उनके भी अपराध
samar shesh hai, nahiiN paap kaa bhaagi keval vyaadh
jO taTasth haiN, samay likhega unke bhii aparaadh
Dinesh

samar, shesh, vyaadh, taTasth
Thanks in advance,
R.K.***

RK sahib, "namaste" ... since we are talking about a hindi kavita :)
samar shesh hai, nahiiN paap kaa bhaagi keval vyaadh
jO taTasth haiN, samay likhega unke bhii aparaadh
-- Raamdhaari Singh Dinakar
samar = war/fight; jung in urdu?
shesh = left; baaqii in urdu?
vyaadh = hunter/oppressor; shikaarii in urdu?
taTasth=neutral/indifferent, One who does not side with any party in a war or dispute; RK sahib, please recommend a good urdu word
aparaadh=crime
Here is a loose translation ... which can never match the impact the original couplet creates ...
The fight is still on, the hunter/oppressor alone is not accountable for the crimes (being committed)
Time will judge/blame those who are opting to remain neutral/indifferent
Dinesh

Dinesh SaaHib, I've checked a couple of dictionaries and they don't don't provide the meaning for "vyaadha" as "opressor" but only give "hunter".
My attempt at re-writing this couplet in Urdu. Hopefully, RK SaaHib will correct the vazn etc.
jang jaarii hai, nahiiN jurm meN shariik faqat saiyyaad (hunter)
jo laa-parvaa haiN vaqt likhe gaa un kii bhii be-daad (injustice)
Perhaps "faqat" can be changed to "sirf" to add a bit of alliteration.
Naseer

لاتعلق کھڑے جو یہ بے حس ہیں سب وقت ان بےحسوں کا کرے گا حساب

jang hai ab musalsal, nahiN daam maiN bas shikaarii hi roaz e hisaab

laat'aalluq kharay jo ye bayhiss hain sab, waqt in bay hisoN ka karay ga hisaab

[Zoya]

Post by Irfan Abid

Post by Zoya
"There comes a time when silence is betrayal".

Zoya sahiba,
Let me repeat this hindi couplet here ...
समर शेष है, नहीं पाप का भागी केवल व्याध
जो तटस्थ हैं, समय लिखेगा उनके भी अपराध
samar shesh hai, nahiiN paap kaa bhaagi keval vyaadh
jO taTasth haiN, samay likhega unke bhii aparaadh

Dinesh sahib, thanks for this couplet, I still find it as amazing as I did when you shared it the first time in the other thread. I also remember I had to look up the meaning of 'vyaadh' back then, in case anyone else is wondering too, it means 'hunter'.

Post by Irfan Abid
Btw, my favorite MLK quote is ..,
“I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.”

Brilliant. And this reminds me of an Ahmad Faraz she'r:

yeh log kaise magar dushmanii nibhaate haiN
hameN to raas na aayiiN muhabbateN karnii!

[Zoya]

allah-o-ghani is dunia meiN, sarmaaya-parasti ka aalam,
bezar ka koi behnoi nahi, zardaar ke laakhoN saale hain - Shauq Behraichi

Mohit, this reminded me of a she'r that I sometimes think about in fancy get togethers, surrounded by women of a 'certain economic class'. I have never quoted this, and even if I did, no one in such gatherings would understand it!

By Jaun Eliya:

yahaaN to jaazbiiyat bhi hai daulat hii ki parvardaa
yeh laRki faaqa_kash hotii, to badsuurat nazar aatii

[SHAH ZAIB]

Post by Zoya
Friends,
When I started the original "aaj kaa she'r" thread, little did I know that it will turn into a series. First of all, my sincere thanks to all group members who have participated actively in the previous three chapters of this thread. The posts are a lot more than a simple collection of asha'ar. It is sort of like the village square, where the group members get together for all sorts of discussions, mostly related to Urdu poetry and language. The earlier threads in this series have provided many learning opportunities for me personally.
Irfan Abid sahib recently pointed out that the thread "aaj kaa she'r (#3)" was getting too long and it is time to start #4. I agree, so here we go!
All of us are still living in an unprecedented globally stressful time, with no end in sight for the constantly mutating pandemic. This is the last day of 2021, a 'shapeless' year that has been very exhausting.
ufuq kii kokh se suuraj kaa nuur niklegaa
ki shab ke ba'd saveraa zaruur niklegaa
guzashta a'hd ki yaadoN ko phir karo taazaa
bujhe charaagh jalaao bahut andheraa hai
Oh, how I would love to go back to 2019!
I know our group has been rather slow lately, with very few active members, some of the veteran members on extended leaves of absence. If you have been away for a while and want to jump back on the Alup wagon, or are considering joining this group as a new member, this thread is an excellent place to start! :)
See you around,
Hoping for a mundane, uneventful 2022,
________Zoya

[Zoya]

On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 5:19:41 AM UTC-6, SHAH ZAIB wrote

Shav Zaib sahib,

Welcome to our group, in particular, welcome to this thread.

Now that you are here, how about posting a she'r? :)

__________Zoya

[Zoya]

On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 5:19:41 AM UTC-6, SHAH ZAIB wrote

Shah Zaib sahib,

Welcome to our group, in particular, welcome to this thread.

Now that you are here, how about posting a she'r? :)

__________Zoya

[Wadim]

sdf, Hallo, just checking in. Wie geht. Liebe sie auch.

Those who have an egg, knok it.