Ghalib's takhallus

[vijaykumark]

Is there a point in time that he switched from being Asad to
Ghalib? If yes, when and why?

I had assumed that he used both throughout his career,
but my friend thinks that is not so.

Vijay

[Naseer]

Post by vijaykumark
Is there a point in time that he switched from being Asad to
Ghalib? If yes, when and why?
I had assumed that he used both throughout his career,
but my friend thinks that is not so.
Vijay

janaab-i-Vijay Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai,

Post by vijaykumark
From Wikipedia...

"His original Takhallus (pen-name) was Asad but then he came across
this 'sher' (couplet) which used the same takhallus:

Asad us jafaa par butoN say wafaa ki. Meray sher shabaash rahmat kHuda
ki.

(Asad worshipped idols after being betrayed. O My Lion, mercy of God
Be On You)

He apparently said, "Whoever authored this sher should get lots of
rahmat ("mercy") of God but if it is mine then lots of laanat
("shame") on me!", and he changed his takhallus to 'Ghalib', which
literally means a conqueror."

I don't know if this is true or not. The number of Ghazals with Asad
as taKHallus is very small compared with Ghalib. This implies that the
change was fairly early in his literary career.

Naseer

[Kali Hawa]

Post by Naseer

Post by vijaykumark
Is there a point in time that he switched from being Asad to
Ghalib? If yes, when and why?
I had assumed that he used both throughout his career,
but my friend thinks that is not so.
Vijay

janaab-i-Vijay Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai,

Post by vijaykumark
From Wikipedia...

"His original Takhallus (pen-name) was Asad but then he came across
Asad us jafaa par butoN say wafaa ki. Meray sher shabaash rahmat kHuda
ki.
(Asad worshipped idols after being betrayed. O My Lion, mercy of God
Be On You)
He apparently said, "Whoever authored this sher should get lots of
rahmat ("mercy") of God but if it is mine then lots of laanat
("shame") on me!", and he changed his takhallus to 'Ghalib', which
literally means a conqueror."
I don't know if this is true or not. The number of Ghazals with Asad
as taKHallus is very small compared with Ghalib. This implies that the
change was fairly early in his literary career.
Naseer

...

Didn't Ghalib used 'NaasiKH' also as taKHallus? Or was it for Farsi
poetry only?

[Rajiv Chakravarti]

aadaab 'arz,

Just wanted to comment on this. The fact that Ghalib changed his
'nom-de-plume' early in life is true. However, it is interesting
to note that he did not exclusively use "Ghalib" as the taKhallus
from that point on, and one finds infrequently a she'r or two where
he reverts back to his name.

Here's an example (copied from the recent revival post, originally
posted by Zafar-sahib):

--
Ghalib kaa dast e tama' to marte dam tak daraaz rakhaa. June 9, 1866
ko Navvab e Rampur ke naam likhte haiN:

dar par Amir e Kalb Ali KhaN ke hooN muqeem
shaa'ista e gadaa'ee e har dar naheeN hooN maiN

booRhaa huvaa hooN, qaabil e Khidmat naheeN 'Asad' <---
Khairaat Khaar e mehz hooN, naukar naheeN hooN maiN
--

Do note the date stated by Zafar sahib, 1866 - just about 3 years
away from his demise. It may be true that we know of only a
few creations where he used "Asad" as his taKhallus (I am afraid
a whole lot more we don't have been lost forever due to neglect from
both Ghalib and others), but one wonders why he chose to go back
to the older pen-name at all, if the change was a conscious decision
on his part. I am not aware of many poets switching taKhallus freely
and often (what says UVR sahib - Khursheed, Shams ... *lol*)..

Was this above snippet a lone exception or just a private
correspondence
with his friend the Nawab, where he chose not to be formal? It is
worthwhile
to remember that Ghalib has a sh'er stating similar sentiments where
he
has used his second taKhallus.

"Ghalib" vazeefa-Khwaar ho, do shaah ko du'aa
voh din gaye k. kehte the naukar naheeN hooN maiN

Regards,
RC

Post by Naseer
I don't know if this is true or not. The number of Ghazals with Asad
as taKHallus is very small compared with Ghalib. This implies that the
change was fairly early in his literary career.
Naseer

[UVR]

Post by Rajiv Chakravarti
It may be true that we know of only a
few creations where he used "Asad" as his taKhallus (I am afraid
a whole lot more we don't have been lost forever due to neglect from
both Ghalib and others), but one wonders why he chose to go back
to the older pen-name at all, if the change was a conscious decision
on his part. I am not aware of many poets switching taKhallus freely
and often (what says UVR sahib - Khursheed, Shams ... *lol*)..

Your last statement is based upon the implicit presupposition that
"UVR sahib is a poet". I know ALUPer(s) who would dispute that
assertion. And for good reason, I might add. :)

As far as your point about whether the switch to 'Asad' was a
conscious decision on Ghalib's part, I think there shouldn't be
any doubt about it at all. Ghalib was dexterous enough with
words that he could fashion any sh'er he wanted. If he used a
particular word in his sh'er, be it a 'regular' word, or his
taKhallus,
it could only have been as a result of a conscious decision!

-UVR.

[Rajiv Chakravarti]

Post by UVR

Post by Rajiv Chakravarti
It may be true that we know of only a
few creations where he used "Asad" as his taKhallus (I am afraid
a whole lot more we don't have been lost forever due to neglect from
both Ghalib and others), but one wonders why he chose to go back
to the older pen-name at all, if the change was a conscious decision
on his part. I am not aware of many poets switching taKhallus freely
and often (what says UVR sahib - Khursheed, Shams ... *lol*)..

Your last statement is based upon the implicit presupposition that
"UVR sahib is a poet". I know ALUPer(s) who would dispute that
assertion. And for good reason, I might add. :)

...

It is, of course, more than a just a supposition of my part. We'll
leave
it at that, given our knowledge of each other.

Post by UVR
... Ghalib was dexterous enough with
words that he could fashion any sh'er he wanted. If he used a
particular word in his sh'er, be it a 'regular' word, or his
taKhallus,
it could only have been as a result of a conscious decision!

Oh, no doubt he wrote it consciously. The point I was trying to make
was merely to ponder WHY he may have done so - was it only
because he never intended for this (particular letter to the Nawab)
to get to the public eye, in the knowledge it was a one-to-one
"letter?"
We won't know, but is there much dated material in the form of
published work that would lead credence to the idea that he would
switch pen-names back and forth after his "conscious" choice to
change to "Ghalib?" I just don't know at this time...

RC

[UVR]

Post by Rajiv Chakravarti

Post by UVR

Post by Rajiv Chakravarti
It may be true that we know of only a
few creations where he used "Asad" as his taKhallus (I am afraid
a whole lot more we don't have been lost forever due to neglect from
both Ghalib and others), but one wonders why he chose to go back
to the older pen-name at all, if the change was a conscious decision
on his part. I am not aware of many poets switching taKhallus freely
and often (what says UVR sahib - Khursheed, Shams ... *lol*)..

Your last statement is based upon the implicit presupposition that
"UVR sahib is a poet". I know ALUPer(s) who would dispute that
assertion. And for good reason, I might add. :)

It is, of course, more than a just a supposition of my part. We'll
leave
it at that, given our knowledge of each other.

Post by UVR
... Ghalib was dexterous enough with
words that he could fashion any sh'er he wanted. If he used a
particular word in his sh'er, be it a 'regular' word, or his
taKhallus,
it could only have been as a result of a conscious decision!

Oh, no doubt he wrote it consciously. The point I was trying to make
was merely to ponder WHY he may have done so - was it only
because he never intended for this (particular letter to the Nawab)
to get to the public eye, in the knowledge it was a one-to-one
"letter?"
We won't know, but is there much dated material in the form of
published work that would lead credence to the idea that he would
switch pen-names back and forth after his "conscious" choice to
change to "Ghalib?" I just don't know at this time...
RC

...

I don't know if Dr. Frances Pritchett's website qualifies as
"reliable" by your yardstick, but a visit to the site indicates
that she (having used publicly available research material)
has dated the following couplets as under:

1816:
bas k hooN 'Ghaalib' aseeri-meN-bhi aatish zer-e-paa
muu-e-aatish deedah hai halqah meri zanjeer kaa
(naqsh faryaadi hai kis ki shoKhi-e-tahreer kaa)

1821:
Gham-e-hasti ka 'Asad' kis se ho juz marg 'ilaaj
sham'a har rang meN jalti hai sahar hote tak
(aah ko chaahiye ik 'umr asar hote tak)

1821(again!):
dhaul-dhappaa us sar-aa-paa naaz kaa sheva naheeN
ham hi kar baiThe the 'Ghaalib' pesh-dasti ek din
(ham se khul jaao ba-waqt-e-maiparasti ek din)

1833:
maaraa zamaane ne 'Asadullaah KhaaN' tumheN
woh walwale kahaaN woh jawaani kidhar gayi
(dil se tiree nigaah jigar tak utar gayi)

1852:
haiN aur bhi dunyaa meN suKhanwar bahut achchhe
kahte haiN k Ghalib kaa hai andaaz-e-bayaaN aur
(hai bas k har ik unke ishaare meN nishaaN aur)

If the dating of these couplets is correct, then I think
these example settle the question once for all --
Ghalib did move freely between his noms de plume
and did not really seem to have any rhyme or reason
for doing so (except, obviously, what he consider apt
for the sh'er in question).

-UVR.

PS: The (published) material Dr. Pritchett has claimed
to have used for help with dating these Ghazals is freely
available on her "Ghalib" website (Google for "desertful
of roses"). I am also told she is responsive to email,
though I have no personal experience of the same.

[UVR]

Post by UVR
PS: The (published) material Dr. Pritchett has claimed
to have used for help with dating these Ghazals is freely
available on her "Ghalib" website (Google for "desertful
of roses"). I am also told she is responsive to email,
though I have no personal experience of the same.

I meant to write "A LIST OF ALL The (published) material..."

Typographical correctness and the ability to properly
convey my thoughts are not my strong points these days[1]

-UVR.

[1] In response to which, some would rightly ask, "have
they ever been?"

[Naseer]

Post by UVR
Typographical correctness and the ability to properly
convey my thoughts are not my strong points these days[1]
-UVR.
[1] In response to which, some would rightly ask, "have
they ever been?"

Respected UVR Sahib, aadaab,

In this field, please do not even attempt to match a certain Naseer.
He is LEAGUES ahead of you and you know it:)

On a serious note, I thought this post had fizzled out but, yet again,
I find myself in the wrong! I have read somewhere that 'Arshi Sahib's
compilation of Ghalib's diivaan is in chronological order or at least
he has made serious attempts to date the Ghazals. I don't have access
to this diivan. Perhaps you or Chakravarti Sahib may be able to get
your hands on it. Still, as both of you gentlemen have indicated, it
appears that Ghalib was switching from one taKHallus to another. If
this is the case, then he seems to be going against the "story" I
quoted and the conclusion one might draw is that that event may have
been manufactured.

Chakravarti Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai

kyaa aap bataa sakte haiN kih aap itnii muddat kahaaN kahaaN Ghaaib
rahte haiN? agar us Thor-Thikaane kii ham Toh lagaa leN, to shaayad
ham bhii kuchh 'arse ke liye vahaaN jaa kar aaraam kar leN :) KHush-
aamaded!!

KHair-andesh,
Naseer

[Rajiv Chakravarti]

If this is the case, then he seems to be going against the "story" I
quoted and the conclusion one might draw is that that event may have
been manufactured.

I had replied along the same lines yesterday from home, but my post
has
seemingly vanished twice into thin air. So I gave up trying to reply
again.
Fortunately, I did save my post the 2nd time I was trying, and here it
is -
hopefully will get through this time..

---

If the dating of these couplets is correct, then I think
these example settle the question once for all --
Ghalib did move freely between his noms de plume
and did not really seem to have any rhyme or reason
for doing so (except, obviously, what he consider apt
for the sh'er in question).

Fantastic, certainly answers my query, but raises another.
If Ghalib really did change his taKhallus to avoid being
defamed by "lesser" poems by another and/or not getting
credit for work of his own, as suggested in the earlier post
to this thread, then:
a) Either this worry went away with time -- or--
b) The story that *allegedly* triggered the change in pen-name
was simply conjured up and then history got blurred, as is
often the case.

Who knows! In any case, the incontrovertible dated material
referenced here certainly shows a free back and forth between
pen-names.

Aside: How many other poets are we aware of that have done
similarly?

RC
-----

Chakravarti Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai
kyaa aap bataa sakte haiN kih aap itnii muddat kahaaN kahaaN Ghaaib
rahte haiN? agar us Thor-Thikaane kii ham Toh lagaa leN, to shaayad
ham bhii kuchh 'arse ke liye vahaaN jaa kar aaraam kar leN :) KHush-
aamaded!!
KHair-andesh,
Naseer

Naseer-saahib,

muKhlisaana salaam 'arz hai. Khair.maqdam ka bohot shukriya, aur
ummeed
hai aap mizaaj.ba.Khair hoNge. yaqeen keejiye k. naacheez gayaa to
kaheeN
bhi naheeN hai, aur ALUP par "day 1" (yaa us se bhi qabl !! lol) mera
aana jaana
jaari hi rahaa hai, agarche kuchch vaqt ke liye baa.vujooh Khaamoshi
iKhtiyaar
karna laazmi samajh liya thaa. ba.Khudaa is ka yeh matlab bilkul na
liyaa
jaaye k. yahaaN ka maahaul aur ahvaal se Ghaafil hooN. koi aur jagah
jaaooN
na jaaooN, ALUP ka chakkar zaroor lagaata hooN, lehaaza meri
Ghair.maujoodgi
ko Ghair.maujoodgi naheeN samajh leejiye, navaazish hogi.

ek aur baat yeh k. jab 'aalim-o-faazil ashKhaas guftgoo yaa behs kar
rahe hoN,
to sunnaa/dekhnaa/seekhnaa ziyada munaasib aur mufeed ma'aloom hota
hai.
aur aap jaise faraaKh-dil insaanoN ki ALUP ko saKht zaroorat hai, to
guzaarish
hai k. aap "aaraam" bhi yaheeN par keejiye, kisi aur jagah ki talaash
na keejiye.

mehrbaani.

- RC

[Zafar]

Rajiv saahib:

shaayad is tehreer se savaal e zair e behs par mazeed raushni paRe jo
Khaaksaar ne koyi chaar baras qabl Abhay saahib ke aik savaal ke
javaab meN likhi thi:

------------------

Ghalib ne apnee zindagee meN kul 6 muhreN banvaa'ee theeN. ye muhreN
us zamaane ke 'aam rivaaj ke mutaabiq Khutoot aur doosree
dastaaveezaat par dast-Khat ke taur par istemaal kee jaatee theeN. un
meN se pehlee muhr par ye likhaa huvaa hai:

Asadullah KhaN
urf
Mirza Nausha 1213

1213H, 1816 AD bantaa hai, jab Ghalib kee umr 19 saal thee. lekin isee
saal Ghalib ne aik aur muhr bhee banvaa'ee:

Asadullah al-Ghalib
1231

is muhr se saaf pataa chaltaa hai k Ghalib ne isee saal, ya'anee 1816
meN hee apnaa taKhallus tabdeel kar liyaa thaa.

1969 meN Ghalib ke apne haath kaa likhaa huvaa un ke deevaan kaa aik
nusKha baraamad huvaa, jise "nusKha e Bhopal" kahaa jaataa hai.
maahireen e Ghalibiyaat (Ghalibiologists) kaa Khayaal hai k ye nusKha
1816 ke lag bhag tasneef kiyaa gayaa thaa.

is nusKhe kee pehlee Ghazal vuhee hai jo muravvij deevaan kee hai,
ya'anee "naqsh fariyaadee hai..." taaham dilchasp baat ye hai k is
Ghazal kee nusKha e Bhopal vaalee shakl meN aik naheeN bal k 2 adad
maqte' haiN, aik to vuhee vaalaa, "bas k hooN *Ghalib* aseeree meN
bhee...". lekin is se pehle vaale she'er meN bhee taKhallus maujood
hai:


vehshat e Khaab e 'adam shor e tamaashaa hai *Asad*
jo mizha jauhar naheeN aa'eena e tadbeer kaa

mere Khayaal meN ye Ghazal is baat kaa suboot hai k Ghalib ne is
Ghazal ke zamaana e fikr ke dauraan hee taKhallus tabdeel kar liyaa
thaa!

to soorat kuchh yooN bantee hai k *Ghalib* iKhtiyaar karne kaa zamaana
to hameN pataa hai, lekin aisaa bhee naheeN k Ghalib ne "Asad" ko
mukammal taur par tark kar diyaa ho:

Gham e hastee kaa *Asad* kis se ho juz marg ilaaj
(c1821)

har ik makaan ko hai makeeN se sharaf *Asad*
(c1821)

taishe baGhair mar na sakaa kohkan *Asad*
(c1821)

aur to aur, ye she'er mulaahiza ho:

booRhaa huvaa hooN, qaabil e Khidmat naheeN *Asad*
Khairaat-Khaar e mehz hooN, naukar naheeN hooN maiN
(June 9, 1866!!! goyaa marne se sirf 3 saal pehle

-----------

aadaab arz hai,

Zafar