Suitable Materials for Learning to Read Urdu

[Naseer]

Dear Alupers, aadaab.

In our Urdu poetry group there have been and still are people who
enjoy Urdu poetry and read it through the medium of Roman Urdu or
another script such as Devanagri. There are those who have a genuine
and earnest desire to learn to read it but have not been able to find
useful materials. There are also those who do know how to read Urdu
but are not totally comfortable in tackling the written word when it
comes to reading Urdu books where the print quality may leave a lot to
be desired for relative beginners.

Today I tried my hand at searching the net for any suitable resources
but unfortunately I was not able to find very much of use there.I
wonder if any of our learned ALUPers are aware of any good learning
materials on or off the net. If so, please share your information for
the benefit of those who are keen to learn to read Urdu poetry and
prose.

Recently I came across videos on Youtube posted by a kind soul using
the pseudonym "Khamosh Tamashai" (Dr.Tariq Akbar) where one can see
top quality poems displayed on screen and listen to them sung by top
quality singers.(Sometimes the poetry is recited).The icing on the
cake is that janaab-i-Khamosh Tamashai's English translation also
appears at the bottom of the screen! tihre maze!!:) No doubt, these
videos would be most welcome additional material for people in the
last category of my first paragraph. One only needs to type in
"KhamoshTamashai" in Youtube and the search will display numerous
results.

Here are a couple to wet your appetite!

1) Inshaa Jii uTho

2) vuh jo ham meN tum meN qaraar thaa

apnii du'aaoN meN "Khamosh Tamashai" Sahib awr "baatuunii" Naseer ko
yaad rakhie gaa:)

Naseer

P.S

This is my second attempt at posting this post. I don't know where the
first one has gone to!!

[v]

Post by Naseer
Dear Alupers, aadaab.
In our Urdu poetry group there have been and still are people who
enjoy Urdu poetry and read it through the medium of Roman Urdu or
another script such as Devanagri. There are those who have a genuine
and earnest desire to learn to read it but have not been able to find
useful materials. There are also those who do know how to read Urdu
but are not totally comfortable in tackling the written word when it
comes to reading Urdu books where the print quality may leave a lot to
be desired for relative beginners.
Today I tried my hand at searching the net for any suitable resources
but unfortunately I was not able to find very much of use there.I
wonder if any of our learned  ALUPers are aware of any good learning
materials on or off the net. If so, please share your information for
the benefit of those who are keen to learn to read Urdu poetry and
prose.
Recently I came across videos on Youtube posted by a kind soul using
the pseudonym "Khamosh Tamashai" (Dr.Tariq Akbar) where one can see
top quality poems displayed on screen and listen to them sung by top
quality singers.(Sometimes the poetry is recited).The icing on the
cake is that janaab-i-Khamosh Tamashai's English translation also
appears at the bottom of the screen! tihre maze!!:) No doubt, these
videos would be most welcome additional material for people in the
last category of my first paragraph. One only needs to type in
"KhamoshTamashai" in Youtube and the search will display numerous
results.
Here are a couple to wet your appetite!
1) Inshaa Jii uTho
http://youtu.be/TcDJe6CpD8k
2) vuh jo ham meN tum meN qaraar thaa
http://youtu.be/7cKyIuCTwRw
apnii du'aaoN meN "Khamosh Tamashai" Sahib awr "baatuunii" Naseer ko
yaad rakhie gaa:)
Naseer
P.S
This is my second attempt at posting this post. I don't know where the
first one has gone to!!

Naseer Saahib

While the ghazals might be helpful for someone who has learnt how to
read Urdu but is not fluent. for someone who is still struggling at
the first hurdle it is not very useful. I have found that where I get
hit in my attempts is the urdu shorthand. the standalone letters I can
recognise (almost always). but the moment they go into the convoluted
jumble they lose me. worse many people do not write the 'maatraas'
i.e. the vowel sounds. it is supposed to be assumed. so lubbe lubaad
is written as labb labaab and so on and so forth.

i think most of the books/websites make urdu talk to urdu or urdu talk
to english. from my point of view it would be most helpful if someone
uses hindi (read devnaagri script) to talk to urdu.

even books like urdu shanaasi (one of the many books which I have
purchased) uses english to translate urdu. and by the fourth chapter
most such books assume that the learner has learnt how to read.

i am sure there is an easier way. that is why i love the songs from
love in simla 'alif pesh uu..."

thanks for your help, but this student needs more help :(

Regards

Ravi

[Naseer]

Ravi Sahib, tasliimaat,

Post by v

Post by Naseer
Dear Alupers, aadaab.
In our Urdu poetry group there have been and still are people who
enjoy Urdu poetry and read it through the medium of Roman Urdu or
another script such as Devanagri. There are those who have a genuine
and earnest desire to learn to read it but have not been able to find
useful materials. There are also those who do know how to read Urdu
but are not totally comfortable in tackling the written word when it
comes to reading Urdu books where the print quality may leave a lot to
be desired for relative beginners.
Today I tried my hand at searching the net for any suitable resources
but unfortunately I was not able to find very much of use there.I
wonder if any of our learned  ALUPers are aware of any good learning
materials on or off the net. If so, please share your information for
the benefit of those who are keen to learn to read Urdu poetry and
prose.
Recently I came across videos on Youtube posted by a kind soul using
the pseudonym "Khamosh Tamashai" (Dr.Tariq Akbar) where one can see
top quality poems displayed on screen and listen to them sung by top
quality singers.(Sometimes the poetry is recited).The icing on the
cake is that janaab-i-Khamosh Tamashai's English translation also
appears at the bottom of the screen! tihre maze!!:) No doubt, these
videos would be most welcome additional material for people in the
last category of my first paragraph. One only needs to type in
"KhamoshTamashai" in Youtube and the search will display numerous
results.
Here are a couple to wet your appetite!
1) Inshaa Jii uTho
http://youtu.be/TcDJe6CpD8k
2) vuh jo ham meN tum meN qaraar thaa
http://youtu.be/7cKyIuCTwRw
apnii du'aaoN meN "Khamosh Tamashai" Sahib awr "baatuunii" Naseer ko
yaad rakhie gaa:)
Naseer
P.S
This is my second attempt at posting this post. I don't know where the
first one has gone to!!

Naseer Saahib
While the ghazals might be helpful for someone who has learnt how to
read Urdu but is not fluent. for someone who is still struggling at
the first hurdle it is not very useful. I have found that where I get
hit in my attempts is the urdu shorthand. the standalone letters I can
recognise (almost always). but the moment they go into the convoluted
jumble they lose me. worse many people do not write the 'maatraas'
i.e. the vowel sounds. it is supposed to be assumed. so lubbe lubaad
is written as labb labaab and so on and so forth.

Not knowing the level of your competency it was not so easy to
recommend appropriate ways to move forward. I deduced that as you had
spent considerable time learning the Urdu script, you would have
rudimentary knowledge. My intention was for you and people in similar
situation as you to look at the Roman and Urdu script poems
simultaneously to help decipher the script.

I personally am not aware of any good on line (or off line books etc)
programmes which would be beneficial for you. Now just because I am
not familiar with such sources does not imply that other ALUPers can
not come up with suitable suggestions. I am sure several ALUPers have
gone out of their way to learn the Urdu script*

I am a great believer in the good old (and tested) materials. As I
have indicated earlier, "Urdu kaa qaa'idah" would be your best
starting point. This would most certainly be available in any large
town in India and would also be available in bookshops owned by people
from the sub-continent in Europe and America. You will no douibt need
the help of a tutor. But this person need not be a professor in Urdu
Studies. He/she can be any person who can read Urdu.

Urdu qaa'idah will have all the short vowels. As one progresses in it
and is getting towards the end of it, fewer and fewer of these vowels
are used. One can then progress to "Urdu kii pahlii kitaab",
"...duusrii kitaab" etc. As you have rightly hinted, Urdu is a
primarily consonantal script. One needs to be "weaned" away from
reliance on the vowels and move on "word recognition". In some
respects this would perhaps be the same in any language. When I see
the word "shikaayateN" in the Momin Ghazal for example, I don't think
about the vowels; I just see the whole word as "shikaayateN". Perhaps
you do the same when reading the same in Devanagri.

Post by v
i am sure there is an easier way. that is why i love the songs from
love in simla 'alif pesh uu..."

Perhaps there is. Let's wait and see what others' views are on this
topic. In the "Love in S(h)imla " song, alif zabar should not be "aa"
but "a" as in "ab" ! Similarly alif zer is not "e" but "i" as in
"in"and alif pesh is not "o" but "u" as in "un".

* Here are views of two ALUPers concerning the importance of learning
to read Urdu script.

doosri baat -- meri suggestion hai ke aap Urdu paDhna seekh
leN. It may not be an *eaaaaasy* task, but yaqeen maaniye,
it is not as difficult as you might think it is. I know
several non-native Urdu speakers who have learnt to read
the script; some have even done it entirely by themselves.
Perhaps one of the most compelling reasons in favor of learning
to read Urdu is that only a minuscule amount of Urdu literature
is available in English/Devanagari transliteration. For anyone
seriously interested in Urdu poetry, being able to read the script
can be a great asset. (UVR July 6, 2000)
..................................................................................................

.......Having said that, I should like to give a very different type
of motivation
for learning the Urdu script.

One should learn the Urdu script for the sheer beauty and aesthetics
of the
experience. The calligraphic elegance of the script will appeal to any
lover
of art and beauty. And once you have mastered it, you will feel that
the
mere act of writing becomes a thrilling experience of creative
artistry.
Once you start reading Urdu verse in Urdu script you will realize, how
the
grace and beauty of the language and the script match each other,
that they
are verily made for each other! This is a revelation and an
experience, no
lover of Urdu verse, should deny himself/herself!

And it can be done! I am speaking from experience. In my young days,
in
Bombay and Poona, I used to be a missionary for Urdu. I not only
introduced
my friends to the wonders of Urdu poetry but also taught them the
script. It
could be done within a month and mind you these were Maharashtrians,
Gujaratis, Bengalis and even South Indians! And none of them ever
regretted
it. On the contrary, they deemed themselves priveleged and fortunate.
So, to all you lovers of Urdu poetry, give it a shot ! You will never
regret
it! Let the coherent beauty of Urdu language and script be revealed to
you!

Regards,

Tejjit Singh Kalsi (February 22, 1998)

(PS Vijay Sahib, more nostalgia for you!)

KHair-andesh,
Naseer

[Naseer]

Ravi Sahib, tasliimaat,

Post by v

Post by Naseer
Dear Alupers, aadaab.
In our Urdu poetry group there have been and still are people who
enjoy Urdu poetry and read it through the medium of Roman Urdu or
another script such as Devanagri. There are those who have a genuine
and earnest desire to learn to read it but have not been able to find
useful materials. There are also those who do know how to read Urdu
but are not totally comfortable in tackling the written word when it
comes to reading Urdu books where the print quality may leave a lot to
be desired for relative beginners.
Today I tried my hand at searching the net for any suitable resources
but unfortunately I was not able to find very much of use there.I
wonder if any of our learned ALUPers are aware of any good learning
materials on or off the net. If so, please share your information for
the benefit of those who are keen to learn to read Urdu poetry and
prose.
Recently I came across videos on Youtube posted by a kind soul using
the pseudonym "Khamosh Tamashai" (Dr.Tariq Akbar) where one can see
top quality poems displayed on screen and listen to them sung by top
quality singers.(Sometimes the poetry is recited).The icing on the
cake is that janaab-i-Khamosh Tamashai's English translation also
appears at the bottom of the screen! tihre maze!!:) No doubt, these
videos would be most welcome additional material for people in the
last category of my first paragraph. One only needs to type in
"KhamoshTamashai" in Youtube and the search will display numerous
results.
Here are a couple to wet your appetite!
1) Inshaa Jii uTho
http://youtu.be/TcDJe6CpD8k
2) vuh jo ham meN tum meN qaraar thaa
http://youtu.be/7cKyIuCTwRw
apnii du'aaoN meN "Khamosh Tamashai" Sahib awr "baatuunii" Naseer ko
yaad rakhie gaa:)
Naseer
P.S
This is my second attempt at posting this post. I don't know where the
first one has gone to!!

Naseer Saahib
While the ghazals might be helpful for someone who has learnt how to
read Urdu but is not fluent. for someone who is still struggling at
the first hurdle it is not very useful. I have found that where I get
hit in my attempts is the urdu shorthand. the standalone letters I can
recognise (almost always). but the moment they go into the convoluted
jumble they lose me. worse many people do not write the 'maatraas'
i.e. the vowel sounds. it is supposed to be assumed. so lubbe lubaad
is written as labb labaab and so on and so forth.

Not knowing the level of your competency it was not so easy to
recommend appropriate ways to move forward. I deduced that as you had
spent considerable time learning the Urdu script, you would have
rudimentary knowledge. My intention was for you and people in similar
situation as you to look at the Roman and Urdu script poems
simultaneously to help decipher the script.

I personally am not aware of any good on line (or off line books etc)
programmes which would be beneficial for you. Now just because I am
not familiar with such sources does not imply that other ALUPers can
not come up with suitable suggestions. I am sure several ALUPers have
gone out of their way to learn the Urdu script*

I am a great believer in the good old (and tested) materials. As I
have indicated earlier, "Urdu kaa qaa'idah" would be your best
starting point. This would most certainly be available in any large
town in India and would also be available in bookshops owned by people
from the sub-continent in Europe and America. You will no douibt need
the help of a tutor. But this person need not be a professor in Urdu
Studies. He/she can be any person who can read Urdu.

Urdu qaa'idah will have all the short vowels. As one progresses in it
and is getting towards the end of it, fewer and fewer of these vowels
are used. One can then progress to "Urdu kii pahlii kitaab",
"...duusrii kitaab" etc. As you have rightly hinted, Urdu is a
primarily consonantal script. One needs to be "weaned" away from
reliance on the vowels and move on "word recognition". In some
respects this would perhaps be the same in any language. When I see
the word "shikaayateN" in the Momin Ghazal for example, I don't think
about the vowels; I just see the whole word as "shikaayateN". Perhaps
you do the same when reading the same in Devanagri.

Post by v
i am sure there is an easier way. that is why i love the songs from
love in simla 'alif pesh uu..."

Perhaps there is. Let's wait and see what others' views are on this
topic. In the "Love in S(h)imla " song, alif zabar should not be "aa"
but "a" as in "ab" ! Similarly alif zer is not "e" but "i" as in
"in"and alif pesh is not "o" but "u" as in "un".

* Here are views of two ALUPers concerning the importance of learning
to read Urdu script.

doosri baat -- meri suggestion hai ke aap Urdu paDhna seekh
leN. It may not be an *eaaaaasy* task, but yaqeen maaniye,
it is not as difficult as you might think it is. I know
several non-native Urdu speakers who have learnt to read
the script; some have even done it entirely by themselves.
Perhaps one of the most compelling reasons in favor of learning
to read Urdu is that only a minuscule amount of Urdu literature
is available in English/Devanagari transliteration. For anyone
seriously interested in Urdu poetry, being able to read the script
can be a great asset. (UVR July 6, 2000)
..................................................................................................

.......Having said that, I should like to give a very different type
of motivation
for learning the Urdu script.

One should learn the Urdu script for the sheer beauty and aesthetics
of the
experience. The calligraphic elegance of the script will appeal to any
lover
of art and beauty. And once you have mastered it, you will feel that
the
mere act of writing becomes a thrilling experience of creative
artistry.
Once you start reading Urdu verse in Urdu script you will realize, how
the
grace and beauty of the language and the script match each other,
that they
are verily made for each other! This is a revelation and an
experience, no
lover of Urdu verse, should deny himself/herself!

And it can be done! I am speaking from experience. In my young days,
in
Bombay and Poona, I used to be a missionary for Urdu. I not only
introduced
my friends to the wonders of Urdu poetry but also taught them the
script. It
could be done within a month and mind you these were Maharashtrians,
Gujaratis, Bengalis and even South Indians! And none of them ever
regretted
it. On the contrary, they deemed themselves priveleged and fortunate.
So, to all you lovers of Urdu poetry, give it a shot ! You will never
regret
it! Let the coherent beauty of Urdu language and script be revealed to
you!

Regards,

Tejjit Singh Kalsi (February 22, 1998)

(PS Vijay Sahib, more nostalgia for you!)

KHair-andesh,
Naseer

[Naseer]

Ravi Sahib, tasliimaat,

Post by v

Post by Naseer
Dear Alupers, aadaab.
In our Urdu poetry group there have been and still are people who
enjoy Urdu poetry and read it through the medium of Roman Urdu or
another script such as Devanagri. There are those who have a genuine
and earnest desire to learn to read it but have not been able to find
useful materials. There are also those who do know how to read Urdu
but are not totally comfortable in tackling the written word when it
comes to reading Urdu books where the print quality may leave a lot to
be desired for relative beginners.
Today I tried my hand at searching the net for any suitable resources
but unfortunately I was not able to find very much of use there.I
wonder if any of our learned ALUPers are aware of any good learning
materials on or off the net. If so, please share your information for
the benefit of those who are keen to learn to read Urdu poetry and
prose.
Recently I came across videos on Youtube posted by a kind soul using
the pseudonym "Khamosh Tamashai" (Dr.Tariq Akbar) where one can see
top quality poems displayed on screen and listen to them sung by top
quality singers.(Sometimes the poetry is recited).The icing on the
cake is that janaab-i-Khamosh Tamashai's English translation also
appears at the bottom of the screen! tihre maze!!:) No doubt, these
videos would be most welcome additional material for people in the
last category of my first paragraph. One only needs to type in
"KhamoshTamashai" in Youtube and the search will display numerous
results.
Here are a couple to wet your appetite!
1) Inshaa Jii uTho
http://youtu.be/TcDJe6CpD8k
2) vuh jo ham meN tum meN qaraar thaa
http://youtu.be/7cKyIuCTwRw
apnii du'aaoN meN "Khamosh Tamashai" Sahib awr "baatuunii" Naseer ko
yaad rakhie gaa:)
Naseer
P.S
This is my second attempt at posting this post. I don't know where the
first one has gone to!!

Naseer Saahib
While the ghazals might be helpful for someone who has learnt how to
read Urdu but is not fluent. for someone who is still struggling at
the first hurdle it is not very useful. I have found that where I get
hit in my attempts is the urdu shorthand. the standalone letters I can
recognise (almost always). but the moment they go into the convoluted
jumble they lose me. worse many people do not write the 'maatraas'
i.e. the vowel sounds. it is supposed to be assumed. so lubbe lubaad
is written as labb labaab and so on and so forth.

Not knowing the level of your competency it was not so easy to
recommend appropriate ways to move forward. I deduced that as you had
spent considerable time learning the Urdu script, you would have
rudimentary knowledge. My intention was for you and people in similar
situation as you to look at the Roman and Urdu script poems
simultaneously to help decipher the script.

I personally am not aware of any good on line (or off line books etc)
programmes which would be beneficial for you. Now just because I am
not familiar with such sources does not imply that other ALUPers can
not come up with suitable suggestions. I am sure several ALUPers have
gone out of their way to learn the Urdu script*

I am a great believer in the good old (and tested) materials. As I
have indicated earlier, "Urdu kaa qaa'idah" would be your best
starting point. This would most certainly be available in any large
town in India and would also be available in bookshops owned by people
from the sub-continent in Europe and America. You will no douibt need
the help of a tutor. But this person need not be a professor in Urdu
Studies. He/she can be any person who can read Urdu.

Urdu qaa'idah will have all the short vowels. As one progresses in it
and is getting towards the end of it, fewer and fewer of these vowels
are used. One can then progress to "Urdu kii pahlii kitaab",
"...duusrii kitaab" etc. As you have rightly hinted, Urdu is a
primarily consonantal script. One needs to be "weaned" away from
reliance on the vowels and move on "word recognition". In some
respects this would perhaps be the same in any language. When I see
the word "shikaayateN" in the Momin Ghazal for example, I don't think
about the vowels; I just see the whole word as "shikaayateN". Perhaps
you do the same when reading the same in Devanagri.

Post by v
i am sure there is an easier way. that is why i love the songs from
love in simla 'alif pesh uu..."

Perhaps there is. Let's wait and see what others' views are on this
topic. In the "Love in S(h)imla " song, alif zabar should not be "aa"
but "a" as in "ab" ! Similarly alif zer is not "e" but "i" as in
"in"and alif pesh is not "o" but "u" as in "un".

* Here are views of two ALUPers concerning the importance of learning
to read Urdu script.

doosri baat -- meri suggestion hai ke aap Urdu paDhna seekh
leN. It may not be an *eaaaaasy* task, but yaqeen maaniye,
it is not as difficult as you might think it is. I know
several non-native Urdu speakers who have learnt to read
the script; some have even done it entirely by themselves.
Perhaps one of the most compelling reasons in favor of learning
to read Urdu is that only a minuscule amount of Urdu literature
is available in English/Devanagari transliteration. For anyone
seriously interested in Urdu poetry, being able to read the script
can be a great asset. (UVR July 6, 2000)
..................................................................................................

...Having said that, I should like to give a very different type of
motivation for learning the Urdu script.

One should learn the Urdu script for the sheer beauty and aesthetics
of the experience. The calligraphic elegance of the script will appeal
to any lover of art and beauty. And once you have mastered it, you
will feel that the mere act of writing becomes a thrilling experience
of creative artistry. Once you start reading Urdu verse in Urdu script
you will realise how the grace and beauty of the language and the
script match each other, that they are verily made for each other!
This is a revelation and an experiencem no lover of Urdu verse, should
deny himself/herself.

And it can be done! I am speaking from experience. In my young days in
Bombay and Poona, I used to be a missionary for Urdu. I not only
introduced my friends to the wonders of Urdu poetry but also taught
them the script. It could be done within a month and mind you these
were Maharashtrians, Gujaratis, Bengalis and even South Indians! And
none of them ever regretted it. On the contrary they deemed themselves
priveleged and fortunate. So, to all you lovers of poetry, give it a
shot! You will never regret it. Let the coherent beauty of Urdu
language and script be revealed to you!

Regards,

Tejjit Singh Kalsi (February 22, 1998)
....................................................................................................................

(Vijay Sahib, more nostalgia for you!)

KHair-andesh,
Naseer

[v]

Post by Naseer
Ravi Sahib, tasliimaat,

Post by v

Post by Naseer
Dear Alupers, aadaab.
In our Urdu poetry group there have been and still are people who
enjoy Urdu poetry and read it through the medium of Roman Urdu or
another script such as Devanagri. There are those who have a genuine
and earnest desire to learn to read it but have not been able to find
useful materials. There are also those who do know how to read Urdu
but are not totally comfortable in tackling the written word when it
comes to reading Urdu books where the print quality may leave a lot to
be desired for relative beginners.
Today I tried my hand at searching the net for any suitable resources
but unfortunately I was not able to find very much of use there.I
wonder if any of our learned  ALUPers are aware of any good learning
materials on or off the net. If so, please share your information for
the benefit of those who are keen to learn to read Urdu poetry and
prose.
Recently I came across videos on Youtube posted by a kind soul using
the pseudonym "Khamosh Tamashai" (Dr.Tariq Akbar) where one can see
top quality poems displayed on screen and listen to them sung by top
quality singers.(Sometimes the poetry is recited).The icing on the
cake is that janaab-i-Khamosh Tamashai's English translation also
appears at the bottom of the screen! tihre maze!!:) No doubt, these
videos would be most welcome additional material for people in the
last category of my first paragraph. One only needs to type in
"KhamoshTamashai" in Youtube and the search will display numerous
results.
Here are a couple to wet your appetite!
1) Inshaa Jii uTho
http://youtu.be/TcDJe6CpD8k
2) vuh jo ham meN tum meN qaraar thaa
http://youtu.be/7cKyIuCTwRw
apnii du'aaoN meN "Khamosh Tamashai" Sahib awr "baatuunii" Naseer ko
yaad rakhie gaa:)
Naseer
P.S
This is my second attempt at posting this post. I don't know where the
first one has gone to!!

Naseer Saahib
While the ghazals might be helpful for someone who has learnt how to
read Urdu but is not fluent. for someone who is still struggling at
the first hurdle it is not very useful. I have found that where I get
hit in my attempts is the urdu shorthand. the standalone letters I can
recognise (almost always). but the moment they go into the convoluted
jumble they lose me. worse many people do not write the 'maatraas'
i.e. the vowel sounds. it is supposed to be assumed. so lubbe lubaad
is written as labb labaab and so on and so forth.

Not knowing the level of your competency it was not so easy to
recommend appropriate ways to move forward. I deduced that as you had
spent considerable time learning the Urdu script, you would have
rudimentary knowledge. My intention was for you and people in similar
situation as you to look at the Roman and Urdu script poems
simultaneously to help decipher the script.
I personally am not aware of any good on line (or off line books etc)
programmes which would be beneficial for you. Now just because I am
not familiar with such sources does not imply that other ALUPers can
not come up with suitable suggestions. I am sure several ALUPers have
gone out of their way to learn the Urdu script*
I am a great believer in the good old (and tested) materials. As I
have indicated earlier, "Urdu kaa qaa'idah" would be your best
starting point. This would most certainly be available in any large
town in India and would also be available in bookshops owned by people
from the sub-continent in Europe and America. You will no douibt need
the help of a tutor. But this person need not be a professor in Urdu
Studies. He/she can be any person who can read Urdu.
Urdu qaa'idah will have all the short vowels. As one progresses in it
and is getting towards the end of it, fewer and fewer of these vowels
are used. One can then progress to "Urdu kii pahlii kitaab",
"...duusrii kitaab" etc. As you have rightly hinted, Urdu is a
primarily consonantal script. One needs to be "weaned" away from
reliance on the vowels and move on "word recognition". In some
respects this would perhaps be the same in any language. When I see
the word "shikaayateN" in the Momin Ghazal for example, I don't think
about the vowels; I just see the whole word as "shikaayateN". Perhaps
you do the same when reading the same in Devanagri.

Post by v
i am sure there is an easier way. that is why i love the songs from
love in simla 'alif pesh uu..."

Perhaps there is. Let's wait and see what others' views are on this
topic. In the "Love in S(h)imla " song, alif zabar should not be "aa"
but "a" as in "ab" ! Similarly alif zer is not "e" but "i"  as in
"in"and alif pesh is not "o" but "u" as in "un".
* Here are views of two ALUPers concerning the importance of learning
to read Urdu script.
doosri baat -- meri suggestion hai ke aap Urdu paDhna seekh
leN.  It may not be an *eaaaaasy* task, but yaqeen maaniye,
it is not as difficult as you might think it is.  I know
several non-native Urdu speakers who have learnt to read
the script; some have even done it entirely by themselves.
Perhaps one of the most compelling reasons in favor of learning
to read Urdu is that only a minuscule amount of Urdu literature
is available in English/Devanagari transliteration. For anyone
seriously interested in Urdu poetry, being able to read the script
can be a great asset. (UVR July 6, 2000)
...........................................................................­.......................
...Having said that, I should like to give a very different type of
motivation for learning the Urdu script.
One should learn the Urdu script for the sheer beauty and aesthetics
of the experience. The calligraphic elegance of the script will appeal
to any lover of art and beauty. And once you have mastered it, you
will feel that the mere act of writing becomes a thrilling experience
of creative artistry. Once you start reading Urdu verse in Urdu script
you will realise how the grace and beauty of the language and the
script match each other, that they are verily made for each other!
This is a revelation and an experiencem no lover of Urdu verse, should
deny himself/herself.
And it can be done! I am speaking from experience. In my young days in
Bombay and Poona, I used to be a missionary for Urdu. I not only
introduced  my friends to the wonders of Urdu poetry but also taught
them the script. It could be done within a month and mind you these
were Maharashtrians, Gujaratis, Bengalis and even South Indians! And
none of them ever regretted it. On the contrary they deemed themselves
priveleged  and fortunate. So, to all you lovers of poetry, give it a
shot! You will never regret it. Let the coherent beauty of Urdu
language and script be revealed to you!
Regards,
Tejjit Singh Kalsi (February 22, 1998)
...........................................................................­.........................................
(Vijay Sahib, more nostalgia for you!)
KHair-andesh,
Naseer- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Dear Naseer Saahab

Thanks for your detailed mail.

Over the years I have accumulated a lot of material for learning Urdu.
Also did two diploma courses (:() one from the university of jammu and
the other from qaumi council baraaye faroGe urdu zabaan. so I have
that study material. have a couple of books called ibtidaai urdu by
ncert (this is available online for download) at the ncert website.
urdu shanaasi by delhi urdu academy I bought from one of the fairs.

there are couple of more workbook kind of books which I filled up ( I
guess they might be versions of the urdu qaidah that you refer to -
though I have no book by that specific name). I realise I am just a
couple of strokes away from glory. but these final strokes are the
ones which often take the longest to make.

I just thought that this group could actually aggregate all the best
available material (paid and free) for learning urdu. The ncert
website textbook link is given below

http://www.ncert.nic.in/textbooks/testing/Index.htm

[Naseer]

Post by v

Post by Naseer
Ravi Sahib, tasliimaat,

Post by v

Post by Naseer
Dear Alupers, aadaab.
In our Urdu poetry group there have been and still are people who
enjoy Urdu poetry and read it through the medium of Roman Urdu or
another script such as Devanagri. There are those who have a genuine
and earnest desire to learn to read it but have not been able to find
useful materials. There are also those who do know how to read Urdu
but are not totally comfortable in tackling the written word when it
comes to reading Urdu books where the print quality may leave a lot to
be desired for relative beginners.
Today I tried my hand at searching the net for any suitable resources
but unfortunately I was not able to find very much of use there.I
wonder if any of our learned  ALUPers are aware of any good learning
materials on or off the net. If so, please share your information for
the benefit of those who are keen to learn to read Urdu poetry and
prose.
Recently I came across videos on Youtube posted by a kind soul using
the pseudonym "Khamosh Tamashai" (Dr.Tariq Akbar) where one can see
top quality poems displayed on screen and listen to them sung by top
quality singers.(Sometimes the poetry is recited).The icing on the
cake is that janaab-i-Khamosh Tamashai's English translation also
appears at the bottom of the screen! tihre maze!!:) No doubt, these
videos would be most welcome additional material for people in the
last category of my first paragraph. One only needs to type in
"KhamoshTamashai" in Youtube and the search will display numerous
results.
Here are a couple to wet your appetite!
1) Inshaa Jii uTho
http://youtu.be/TcDJe6CpD8k
2) vuh jo ham meN tum meN qaraar thaa
http://youtu.be/7cKyIuCTwRw
apnii du'aaoN meN "Khamosh Tamashai" Sahib awr "baatuunii" Naseer ko
yaad rakhie gaa:)
Naseer
P.S
This is my second attempt at posting this post. I don't know where the
first one has gone to!!

Naseer Saahib
While the ghazals might be helpful for someone who has learnt how to
read Urdu but is not fluent. for someone who is still struggling at
the first hurdle it is not very useful. I have found that where I get
hit in my attempts is the urdu shorthand. the standalone letters I can
recognise (almost always). but the moment they go into the convoluted
jumble they lose me. worse many people do not write the 'maatraas'
i.e. the vowel sounds. it is supposed to be assumed. so lubbe lubaad
is written as labb labaab and so on and so forth.

Not knowing the level of your competency it was not so easy to
recommend appropriate ways to move forward. I deduced that as you had
spent considerable time learning the Urdu script, you would have
rudimentary knowledge. My intention was for you and people in similar
situation as you to look at the Roman and Urdu script poems
simultaneously to help decipher the script.
I personally am not aware of any good on line (or off line books etc)
programmes which would be beneficial for you. Now just because I am
not familiar with such sources does not imply that other ALUPers can
not come up with suitable suggestions. I am sure several ALUPers have
gone out of their way to learn the Urdu script*
I am a great believer in the good old (and tested) materials. As I
have indicated earlier, "Urdu kaa qaa'idah" would be your best
starting point. This would most certainly be available in any large
town in India and would also be available in bookshops owned by people
from the sub-continent in Europe and America. You will no douibt need
the help of a tutor. But this person need not be a professor in Urdu
Studies. He/she can be any person who can read Urdu.
Urdu qaa'idah will have all the short vowels. As one progresses in it
and is getting towards the end of it, fewer and fewer of these vowels
are used. One can then progress to "Urdu kii pahlii kitaab",
"...duusrii kitaab" etc. As you have rightly hinted, Urdu is a
primarily consonantal script. One needs to be "weaned" away from
reliance on the vowels and move on "word recognition". In some
respects this would perhaps be the same in any language. When I see
the word "shikaayateN" in the Momin Ghazal for example, I don't think
about the vowels; I just see the whole word as "shikaayateN". Perhaps
you do the same when reading the same in Devanagri.

Post by v
i am sure there is an easier way. that is why i love the songs from
love in simla 'alif pesh uu..."

Perhaps there is. Let's wait and see what others' views are on this
topic. In the "Love in S(h)imla " song, alif zabar should not be "aa"
but "a" as in "ab" ! Similarly alif zer is not "e" but "i"  as in
"in"and alif pesh is not "o" but "u" as in "un".
* Here are views of two ALUPers concerning the importance of learning
to read Urdu script.
doosri baat -- meri suggestion hai ke aap Urdu paDhna seekh
leN.  It may not be an *eaaaaasy* task, but yaqeen maaniye,
it is not as difficult as you might think it is.  I know
several non-native Urdu speakers who have learnt to read
the script; some have even done it entirely by themselves.
Perhaps one of the most compelling reasons in favor of learning
to read Urdu is that only a minuscule amount of Urdu literature
is available in English/Devanagari transliteration. For anyone
seriously interested in Urdu poetry, being able to read the script
can be a great asset. (UVR July 6, 2000)
...........................................................................­.......................
...Having said that, I should like to give a very different type of
motivation for learning the Urdu script.
One should learn the Urdu script for the sheer beauty and aesthetics
of the experience. The calligraphic elegance of the script will appeal
to any lover of art and beauty. And once you have mastered it, you
will feel that the mere act of writing becomes a thrilling experience
of creative artistry. Once you start reading Urdu verse in Urdu script
you will realise how the grace and beauty of the language and the
script match each other, that they are verily made for each other!
This is a revelation and an experiencem no lover of Urdu verse, should
deny himself/herself.
And it can be done! I am speaking from experience. In my young days in
Bombay and Poona, I used to be a missionary for Urdu. I not only
introduced  my friends to the wonders of Urdu poetry but also taught
them the script. It could be done within a month and mind you these
were Maharashtrians, Gujaratis, Bengalis and even South Indians! And
none of them ever regretted it. On the contrary they deemed themselves
priveleged  and fortunate. So, to all you lovers of poetry, give it a
shot! You will never regret it. Let the coherent beauty of Urdu
language and script be revealed to you!
Regards,
Tejjit Singh Kalsi (February 22, 1998)
...........................................................................­.........................................
(Vijay Sahib, more nostalgia for you!)
KHair-andesh,
Naseer- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Dear Naseer Saahab
Thanks for your detailed mail.
Over the years I have accumulated a lot of material for learning Urdu.
Also did two diploma courses (:() one from the university of jammu and
the other from qaumi council baraaye faroGe urdu zabaan. so I have
that study material. have a couple of books called ibtidaai urdu by
ncert (this is available online for download) at the ncert website.
urdu shanaasi by delhi urdu academy I bought from one of the fairs.
there are couple of more workbook kind of books which I filled up ( I
guess they might be versions of the urdu qaidah that you refer to -
though I have no book by that specific name). I realise I am just a
couple of strokes away from glory. but these final strokes are the
ones which often take the longest to make.
I just thought that this group could actually aggregate all the best
available material (paid and free) for learning urdu. The ncert
website textbook link is given below
http://www.ncert.nic.in/textbooks/testing/Index.htm

Ravi Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai.

B.G.M Sahib, hiiNg vaale muHaavare ke baare meN puuchh rahe the. aap
par Urdu kii ek zarbu_masal saadiq aatii hai..

bachchah/laRkaa baGhal meN, DhiNDhora shahr meN!:)

Huzuur, aap ke paas jo Urdu kitaaboN kaa silsilah hai is se bihtar
kitaabeN aap ko kahaaN mileN gii? pahlii kitaab, jo kih samajh liijiye
kih Urdu kaa qaa'idah hii hai, bahut munaasib hai. sirf aap ko kisii
KHudaa ke bande kii thoRii rahbarii kii zaruurat hai.

is kitaab meN maiN ne ek "intuition" bhii dekhii hai. uu kii aavaaz,
jaise..uun (wool) is normally written as alif pesh vaao nuun and for
juun (as in the month of June)..jiim pesh vaao nuun. lekin is pahlii
kitaab meN ise ek awr tariiqe se sikhaayaa gayaa hai. masal-an uun ko
alif, vaao (with a sign on top implyuing that the vaao is here gives
the uu sound) nuun. This system, in my view, is strictly not correct.
However, if one attains one's goal of being able to read correctly,
what's the harm?

Please persevere with a friend using this book.

Naseer

[v]

Post by Naseer

Post by v

Post by Naseer
Ravi Sahib, tasliimaat,

Post by v

Post by Naseer
Dear Alupers, aadaab.
In our Urdu poetry group there have been and still are people who
enjoy Urdu poetry and read it through the medium of Roman Urdu or
another script such as Devanagri. There are those who have a genuine
and earnest desire to learn to read it but have not been able to find
useful materials. There are also those who do know how to read Urdu
but are not totally comfortable in tackling the written word when it
comes to reading Urdu books where the print quality may leave a lot to
be desired for relative beginners.
Today I tried my hand at searching the net for any suitable resources
but unfortunately I was not able to find very much of use there.I
wonder if any of our learned  ALUPers are aware of any good learning
materials on or off the net. If so, please share your information for
the benefit of those who are keen to learn to read Urdu poetry and
prose.
Recently I came across videos on Youtube posted by a kind soul using
the pseudonym "Khamosh Tamashai" (Dr.Tariq Akbar) where one can see
top quality poems displayed on screen and listen to them sung by top
quality singers.(Sometimes the poetry is recited).The icing on the
cake is that janaab-i-Khamosh Tamashai's English translation also
appears at the bottom of the screen! tihre maze!!:) No doubt, these
videos would be most welcome additional material for people in the
last category of my first paragraph. One only needs to type in
"KhamoshTamashai" in Youtube and the search will display numerous
results.
Here are a couple to wet your appetite!
1) Inshaa Jii uTho
http://youtu.be/TcDJe6CpD8k
2) vuh jo ham meN tum meN qaraar thaa
http://youtu.be/7cKyIuCTwRw
apnii du'aaoN meN "Khamosh Tamashai" Sahib awr "baatuunii" Naseer ko
yaad rakhie gaa:)
Naseer
P.S
This is my second attempt at posting this post. I don't know where the
first one has gone to!!

Naseer Saahib
While the ghazals might be helpful for someone who has learnt how to
read Urdu but is not fluent. for someone who is still struggling at
the first hurdle it is not very useful. I have found that where I get
hit in my attempts is the urdu shorthand. the standalone letters I can
recognise (almost always). but the moment they go into the convoluted
jumble they lose me. worse many people do not write the 'maatraas'
i.e. the vowel sounds. it is supposed to be assumed. so lubbe lubaad
is written as labb labaab and so on and so forth.

Not knowing the level of your competency it was not so easy to
recommend appropriate ways to move forward. I deduced that as you had
spent considerable time learning the Urdu script, you would have
rudimentary knowledge. My intention was for you and people in similar
situation as you to look at the Roman and Urdu script poems
simultaneously to help decipher the script.
I personally am not aware of any good on line (or off line books etc)
programmes which would be beneficial for you. Now just because I am
not familiar with such sources does not imply that other ALUPers can
not come up with suitable suggestions. I am sure several ALUPers have
gone out of their way to learn the Urdu script*
I am a great believer in the good old (and tested) materials. As I
have indicated earlier, "Urdu kaa qaa'idah" would be your best
starting point. This would most certainly be available in any large
town in India and would also be available in bookshops owned by people
from the sub-continent in Europe and America. You will no douibt need
the help of a tutor. But this person need not be a professor in Urdu
Studies. He/she can be any person who can read Urdu.
Urdu qaa'idah will have all the short vowels. As one progresses in it
and is getting towards the end of it, fewer and fewer of these vowels
are used. One can then progress to "Urdu kii pahlii kitaab",
"...duusrii kitaab" etc. As you have rightly hinted, Urdu is a
primarily consonantal script. One needs to be "weaned" away from
reliance on the vowels and move on "word recognition". In some
respects this would perhaps be the same in any language. When I see
the word "shikaayateN" in the Momin Ghazal for example, I don't think
about the vowels; I just see the whole word as "shikaayateN". Perhaps
you do the same when reading the same in Devanagri.

Post by v
i am sure there is an easier way. that is why i love the songs from
love in simla 'alif pesh uu..."

Perhaps there is. Let's wait and see what others' views are on this
topic. In the "Love in S(h)imla " song, alif zabar should not be "aa"
but "a" as in "ab" ! Similarly alif zer is not "e" but "i"  as in
"in"and alif pesh is not "o" but "u" as in "un".
* Here are views of two ALUPers concerning the importance of learning
to read Urdu script.
doosri baat -- meri suggestion hai ke aap Urdu paDhna seekh
leN.  It may not be an *eaaaaasy* task, but yaqeen maaniye,
it is not as difficult as you might think it is.  I know
several non-native Urdu speakers who have learnt to read
the script; some have even done it entirely by themselves.
Perhaps one of the most compelling reasons in favor of learning
to read Urdu is that only a minuscule amount of Urdu literature
is available in English/Devanagari transliteration. For anyone
seriously interested in Urdu poetry, being able to read the script
can be a great asset. (UVR July 6, 2000)
...........................................................................­­.......................
...Having said that, I should like to give a very different type of
motivation for learning the Urdu script.
One should learn the Urdu script for the sheer beauty and aesthetics
of the experience. The calligraphic elegance of the script will appeal
to any lover of art and beauty. And once you have mastered it, you
will feel that the mere act of writing becomes a thrilling experience
of creative artistry. Once you start reading Urdu verse in Urdu script
you will realise how the grace and beauty of the language and the
script match each other, that they are verily made for each other!
This is a revelation and an experiencem no lover of Urdu verse, should
deny himself/herself.
And it can be done! I am speaking from experience. In my young days in
Bombay and Poona, I used to be a missionary for Urdu. I not only
introduced  my friends to the wonders of Urdu poetry but also taught
them the script. It could be done within a month and mind you these
were Maharashtrians, Gujaratis, Bengalis and even South Indians! And
none of them ever regretted it. On the contrary they deemed themselves
priveleged  and fortunate. So, to all you lovers of poetry, give it a
shot! You will never regret it. Let the coherent beauty of Urdu
language and script be revealed to you!
Regards,
Tejjit Singh Kalsi (February 22, 1998)
...........................................................................­­.........................................
(Vijay Sahib, more nostalgia for you!)
KHair-andesh,
Naseer- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Dear Naseer Saahab
Thanks for your detailed mail.
Over the years I have accumulated a lot of material for learning Urdu.
Also did two diploma courses (:() one from the university of jammu and
the other from qaumi council baraaye faroGe urdu zabaan. so I have
that study material. have a couple of books called ibtidaai urdu by
ncert (this is available online for download) at the ncert website.
urdu shanaasi by delhi urdu academy I bought from one of the fairs.
there are couple of more workbook kind of books which I filled up ( I
guess they might be versions of the urdu qaidah that you refer to -
though I have no book by that specific name). I realise I am just a
couple of strokes away from glory. but these final strokes are the
ones which often take the longest to make.
I just thought that this group could actually aggregate all the best
available material (paid and free) for learning urdu. The ncert
website textbook link is given below
http://www.ncert.nic.in/textbooks/testing/Index.htm

Ravi Sahib, aadaab 'arz hai.
B.G.M Sahib, hiiNg vaale muHaavare ke baare meN puuchh rahe the. aap
par Urdu kii ek zarbu_masal saadiq aatii hai..
bachchah/laRkaa baGhal meN, DhiNDhora shahr meN!:)
Huzuur, aap ke paas jo Urdu kitaaboN kaa silsilah hai is se bihtar
kitaabeN aap ko kahaaN mileN gii? pahlii kitaab, jo kih samajh liijiye
kih Urdu kaa qaa'idah hii hai, bahut munaasib hai. sirf aap ko kisii
KHudaa ke bande kii thoRii rahbarii kii zaruurat hai.
is kitaab meN maiN ne ek "intuition" bhii dekhii hai. uu kii aavaaz,
jaise..uun (wool) is normally written as alif pesh vaao nuun and for
juun (as in the month of June)..jiim pesh vaao nuun. lekin is pahlii
kitaab meN ise ek awr tariiqe se sikhaayaa gayaa hai. masal-an uun ko
alif, vaao (with a sign on top implyuing that the vaao is here gives
the uu sound) nuun. This system, in my view, is strictly not correct.
However, if one attains one's goal of being able to read correctly,
what's the harm?
Please persevere with a friend using this book.
Naseer- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

hmmm interesting observation. in fact I read one of the books that I
have. it referred to this 'symbol' as ulTaa pesh which with vaao will
indicate 'uu'.

[Naseer]

Post by v
hmmm interesting observation. in fact I read one of the books that I
have. it referred to this 'symbol' as ulTaa pesh which with vaao will
indicate 'uu'.

Ravi Sahib, aadaab.

I am aware of the "ulTaa pesh" as well as "khaRaa zabar" and "khaRaa
zer".

khaRaa zabar = zabar+alif = aa
khaRaa zer = zer + ye = ii
ulTaa pesh = pesh+vaao = uu

I have never, until now, seen this method of teaching ii and uu vowels
for Urdu. As I said, it is the end result that matters. Follow the
(first) book with a tutor and you won't go wrong. (And the same
applies to you Khushboo Sahiba!)

Naseer

[UVR]

Post by v

Post by Naseer
Ravi Sahib, tasliimaat,

Post by v

Post by Naseer
Dear Alupers, aadaab.
In our Urdu poetry group there have been and still are people who
enjoy Urdu poetry and read it through the medium of Roman Urdu or
another script such as Devanagri. There are those who have a genuine
and earnest desire to learn to read it but have not been able to find
useful materials. There are also those who do know how to read Urdu
but are not totally comfortable in tackling the written word when it
comes to reading Urdu books where the print quality may leave a lot to
be desired for relative beginners.
Today I tried my hand at searching the net for any suitable resources
but unfortunately I was not able to find very much of use there.I
wonder if any of our learned  ALUPers are aware of any good learning
materials on or off the net. If so, please share your information for
the benefit of those who are keen to learn to read Urdu poetry and
prose.
Recently I came across videos on Youtube posted by a kind soul using
the pseudonym "Khamosh Tamashai" (Dr.Tariq Akbar) where one can see
top quality poems displayed on screen and listen to them sung by top
quality singers.(Sometimes the poetry is recited).The icing on the
cake is that janaab-i-Khamosh Tamashai's English translation also
appears at the bottom of the screen! tihre maze!!:) No doubt, these
videos would be most welcome additional material for people in the
last category of my first paragraph. One only needs to type in
"KhamoshTamashai" in Youtube and the search will display numerous
results.
Here are a couple to wet your appetite!
1) Inshaa Jii uTho
http://youtu.be/TcDJe6CpD8k
2) vuh jo ham meN tum meN qaraar thaa
http://youtu.be/7cKyIuCTwRw
apnii du'aaoN meN "Khamosh Tamashai" Sahib awr "baatuunii" Naseer ko
yaad rakhie gaa:)
Naseer
P.S
This is my second attempt at posting this post. I don't know where the
first one has gone to!!

Naseer Saahib
While the ghazals might be helpful for someone who has learnt how to
read Urdu but is not fluent. for someone who is still struggling at
the first hurdle it is not very useful. I have found that where I get
hit in my attempts is the urdu shorthand. the standalone letters I can
recognise (almost always). but the moment they go into the convoluted
jumble they lose me. worse many people do not write the 'maatraas'
i.e. the vowel sounds. it is supposed to be assumed. so lubbe lubaad
is written as labb labaab and so on and so forth.

Not knowing the level of your competency it was not so easy to
recommend appropriate ways to move forward. I deduced that as you had
spent considerable time learning the Urdu script, you would have
rudimentary knowledge. My intention was for you and people in similar
situation as you to look at the Roman and Urdu script poems
simultaneously to help decipher the script.
I personally am not aware of any good on line (or off line books etc)
programmes which would be beneficial for you. Now just because I am
not familiar with such sources does not imply that other ALUPers can
not come up with suitable suggestions. I am sure several ALUPers have
gone out of their way to learn the Urdu script*
I am a great believer in the good old (and tested) materials. As I
have indicated earlier, "Urdu kaa qaa'idah" would be your best
starting point. This would most certainly be available in any large
town in India and would also be available in bookshops owned by people
from the sub-continent in Europe and America. You will no douibt need
the help of a tutor. But this person need not be a professor in Urdu
Studies. He/she can be any person who can read Urdu.
Urdu qaa'idah will have all the short vowels. As one progresses in it
and is getting towards the end of it, fewer and fewer of these vowels
are used. One can then progress to "Urdu kii pahlii kitaab",
"...duusrii kitaab" etc. As you have rightly hinted, Urdu is a
primarily consonantal script. One needs to be "weaned" away from
reliance on the vowels and move on "word recognition". In some
respects this would perhaps be the same in any language. When I see
the word "shikaayateN" in the Momin Ghazal for example, I don't think
about the vowels; I just see the whole word as "shikaayateN". Perhaps
you do the same when reading the same in Devanagri.

Post by v
i am sure there is an easier way. that is why i love the songs from
love in simla 'alif pesh uu..."

Perhaps there is. Let's wait and see what others' views are on this
topic. In the "Love in S(h)imla " song, alif zabar should not be "aa"
but "a" as in "ab" ! Similarly alif zer is not "e" but "i"  as in
"in"and alif pesh is not "o" but "u" as in "un".
* Here are views of two ALUPers concerning the importance of learning
to read Urdu script.
doosri baat -- meri suggestion hai ke aap Urdu paDhna seekh
leN.  It may not be an *eaaaaasy* task, but yaqeen maaniye,
it is not as difficult as you might think it is.  I know
several non-native Urdu speakers who have learnt to read
the script; some have even done it entirely by themselves.
Perhaps one of the most compelling reasons in favor of learning
to read Urdu is that only a minuscule amount of Urdu literature
is available in English/Devanagari transliteration. For anyone
seriously interested in Urdu poetry, being able to read the script
can be a great asset. (UVR July 6, 2000)
...........................................................................­.......................
...Having said that, I should like to give a very different type of
motivation for learning the Urdu script.
One should learn the Urdu script for the sheer beauty and aesthetics
of the experience. The calligraphic elegance of the script will appeal
to any lover of art and beauty. And once you have mastered it, you
will feel that the mere act of writing becomes a thrilling experience
of creative artistry. Once you start reading Urdu verse in Urdu script
you will realise how the grace and beauty of the language and the
script match each other, that they are verily made for each other!
This is a revelation and an experiencem no lover of Urdu verse, should
deny himself/herself.
And it can be done! I am speaking from experience. In my young days in
Bombay and Poona, I used to be a missionary for Urdu. I not only
introduced  my friends to the wonders of Urdu poetry but also taught
them the script. It could be done within a month and mind you these
were Maharashtrians, Gujaratis, Bengalis and even South Indians! And
none of them ever regretted it. On the contrary they deemed themselves
priveleged  and fortunate. So, to all you lovers of poetry, give it a
shot! You will never regret it. Let the coherent beauty of Urdu
language and script be revealed to you!
Regards,
Tejjit Singh Kalsi (February 22, 1998)
...........................................................................­.........................................
(Vijay Sahib, more nostalgia for you!)
KHair-andesh,
Naseer- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Dear Naseer Saahab
Thanks for your detailed mail.
Over the years I have accumulated a lot of material for learning Urdu.
Also did two diploma courses (:() one from the university of jammu and
the other from qaumi council baraaye faroGe urdu zabaan. so I have
that study material. have a couple of books called ibtidaai urdu by
ncert (this is available online for download) at the ncert website.
urdu shanaasi by delhi urdu academy I bought from one of the fairs.
there are couple of more workbook kind of books which I filled up ( I
guess they might be versions of the urdu qaidah that you refer to -
though I have no book by that specific name). I realise I am just a
couple of strokes away from glory. but these final strokes are the
ones which often take the longest to make.
I just thought that this group could actually aggregate all the best
available material (paid and free) for learning urdu. The ncert
website textbook link is given below
http://www.ncert.nic.in/textbooks/testing/Index.htm

Ravi saahib,

Allow me to make a gentle suggestion, if I may, the implementation of
which may aid in your successfully making those final leaps towards
greater felicity with the Urdu script -- get yourself a copy of the
Urdu script version of Diwan-e-Ghalib published by the Ghalib Academy
in Delhi. This book uses "standard Urdu transcription" -- meaning
that it (a) is printed in nast'aliq, and (b) dispenses, as most Urdu
publications do, with "unnecessary" zer-zabar-pesh diacrtics. Next,
also get yourself a copy of the Diwan-e-Ghalib in the Devanagari
script published by the Ghalib Academy.

Now, commit yourself to reading one Ghazal a day (at least) in Urdu,
while keeping the Devanagari version handy. Chances are, you will
make rapid progress from the very get-go. If and you come across a
word that you're unable to comprehend/read, open the Hindi script
version and cross reference. Slowly but surely, two things will
occur:

(1) you will gain familiarity with standard Urdu transcription
(2) you will gain familiarity with, perhaps even commit to memory, ALL
Ghazals of Ghalib! Provided, of course, you don't run out of steam.

If purchasing TWO books seems like unnecessary waste of money, try to
see if you can lay your hands on the Diwan-e-Ghalib compiled by Ali
Sardar Jafri in "Hindi and Urdu" (ISBN 8171211305). This book is
excellent for beginning Urdu script readers AND beginning Devanagari
readers BOTH -- it has each Ghazal printed on one FACE in Hindi and on
the opposite face in Urdu script. The catch is, it is really hard to
find, and quite expensive.

Once you have attained a reasonable degree of comfort reading the Urdu
script, you can start reading other poets' works, Urdu newspapers,
etc. There are a lot of resources online that will help you once you
are at that point.

Hope this is somewhat useful. Wish you a happy new year.

-UVR.

[Naseer]

In "Motivational Poetry" thread Ravi Sahib wrote:

"Janaab Naseer Saahab

are there other sites like this one, which provide the urdu text
clearly with hindi/english translations. I was also trying to use
google transliteration as a guide to learning the script. but the
script used by google

http://www.google.com/transliterate/urdu

is very different from what I have read in books. it is the nastaaleeq
vs the other font thing. in that case I wonder why these guys are
using this font."

Ravi Sahib, aadaab.

I am afraid I do not know of any internet sites teaching Urdu script
through the medium of Hindi/English. I am sure that if there were such
sites, UVR Sahib would have been aware of them.

Google uses the "nasKH" font. In some ways it is much more clearer
than nast'liiq, especially when the latter's print quality is not very
good.

I think that you need to take the bull by the horns and decide on
whichever method (UVR Sahib's suggestion or mine or a combination of
both or another) you are going to adopt to learn Urdu script and then
get on with it. Practice makes perfect, as they say!

Naseer

[UVR]

Post by Naseer
"Janaab Naseer Saahab
are there other sites like this one, which provide the urdu text
clearly with hindi/english translations. I was also trying to use
google transliteration as a guide to learning the script. but the
script used by google
http://www.google.com/transliterate/urdu
is very different from what I have read in books. it is the nastaaleeq
vs the other font thing. in that case I wonder why these guys are
using this font."
Ravi Sahib, aadaab.
I am afraid I do not know of any internet sites teaching Urdu script
through the medium of Hindi/English. I am sure that if there were such
sites, UVR Sahib would have been aware of them.
Google uses the "nasKH" font. In some ways it is much more clearer
than nast'liiq, especially when the latter's print quality is not very
good.
I think that you need to take the bull by the horns and decide on
whichever method (UVR Sahib's suggestion or mine or a combination of
both or another) you are going to adopt to learn Urdu script and then
get on with it. Practice makes perfect, as they say!
Naseer

"Google uses 'nasKh'" is not really 100% correct.

In layman's terms, there are two parts to the font puzzle, especially
the Unicode font puzzle; the server part (which is "what font Google
or BBCUrdu has specified for displaying the Unicode text in question")
and the client part (which is, "what fonts do you have installed on
your computer").

In general, the font you see on your screen depends on what fonts you
have installed on your computer. For example, the same Unicode Urdu
text can appear *very* different depending on whether you are using
Windows, MacOS and Linux. BBCUrdu can specify that it wants you to
use "asunaskh" (Asiatype Unicode Naskh) font to display its pages, but
if you don't have that font installed on your computer, it won't do
BBC or you any good, really. This is why, if you go to BBCUrdu.com
you see a red button on the top left hand corner offering Urdu font
help.

It's not that good Unicode Urdu fonts are hard to come by. It's just
that there's little standardization in terms of which fonts are most
widely available (or widely used). The Naskh-looking fonts, which
were the first to be developed, before nast'aliq-looking ones, have
received the widest exposure and use. But many good nast'aliq fonts
are also available. Google is your friend.

That said, I would strongly advice AGAINST using, for initial learning
of the Urdu script, any online sources, especially those that utilize
Unicode Urdu fonts, until the entire Urdu font area becomes less
muddled than it currently is. Just use books and newspapers. Some
trees are born to be killed and turned into paper :-)

-UVR.

[Naseer]

Ravi Sahib, aadaab.

Today I spent a considerable time searching on the net for Urdu
reading materials. I found the following amongst which two are books
and one is an
on-line course. All three use English as the teaching medium.

1) Teach Yourself Beginner's Urdu Script, by Richard Delacy (Amazon
Books)

2) A New Course in Urdu and Spoken Hindi for Learners in Britain ( by
Ralph Russell)

"The course, originally published in 1980-1982 under the title A New
Course in Hindustani, comprises four parts.

Part IV, The Urdu Script. For those students who can give the
necessary time, it is desirable to learn to read and write in parallel
with learning to understand and speak the language, and Part IV
teaches you to read and write words and sentences in much the same
order in which you meet them in Part I. The traditional method of
presenting the whole alphabet, set out in alphabetical order, and
giving full range of detached, initial, medial and final forms, has
not been followed. You learn the letters as you need them, and in the
forms you need at the point at which you first encounter them, until
the whole range of letters and forms has been covered; and a
systematic statement is then given. You are also given throughout much
more detailed guidance on how to write the script than other courses
provide."

Order from Publications Officer, SOAS
www.soas.ac.uk

3) http://www.ukindia.com/zurdu1.htm (Learn to Read Urdu)


I still think your Urdu kii pahlii kitaab with the help of a tutor
would be your best bet.

Naseer

[Naseer]

Ravi Sahib, aadaab.

Today I spent a considerable time searching on the net for Urdu
reading materials. I found the following amongst which two are books
and one is an on-line course. All three use English as the teaching
medium.

1) Teach Yourself Beginner's Urdu Script, by Richard Delacy (Amazon
Books)

2) A New Course in Urdu and Spoken Hindi for Learners in Britain ( by
Ralph Russell)

"The course, originally published in 1980-1982 under the title A New
Course in Hindustani, comprises four parts.

Part IV, The Urdu Script. For those students who can give the
necessary time, it is desirable to learn to read and write in parallel
with learning to understand and speak the language, and Part IV
teaches you to read and write words and sentences in much the same
order in which you meet them in Part I. The traditional method of
presenting the whole alphabet, set out in alphabetical order, and
giving full range of detached, initial, medial and final forms, has
not been followed. You learn the letters as you need them, and in the
forms you need at the point at which you first encounter them, until
the whole range of letters and forms has been covered; and a
systematic statement is then given. You are also given throughout much
more detailed guidance on how to write the script than other courses
provide."

Order from Publications Officer, SOAS
www.soas.ac.uk

3) http://www.ukindia.com/zurdu1.htm (Learn to Read Urdu)

I still think your Urdu kii pahlii kitaab with the help of a tutor
would be your best bet.

Naseer

[v]

janaab UVR Saahib and Naseer Saahib

Now that I have published my goal on a newsgroup, my efforts have kind
of doubled. I think that is a great learning for anyone planning to do
goal setting :) Publish your goal to as large a group as possible -
the embarrassment of not achieving it will probably make you work
doubly hard.

I finally managed to read a caption on DD Urdu during a new bulleting
(at the normal speed that it was broadcast). I can not tell you how
elated I feel. In fact I immediately went back to the Khamosh
Tanhaaiyaan gentleman (that Naseer had suggested initially and I had
been unable to use) and I found that to be useful too.

I also had a another book by kc kanda which had the mechanism that UVR
saahab suggested, devnagri and urdu side by side. I wish there were
more such sites. and of course every film I see I carefully read the
title in Urdu. though I find a lot of variations in the way people
write. deedaare yaar was written as da zer da alif ...whereas at other
places the long ii sound is shown by two dots under the line.

But I also realised that Urdu is a language of dots and slashes or
nuqtaas and markazes as one book calls them.

Once again thanks for finally keeping me motivated on the last mile of
my journey. I am now sure that the 15 year old journey will finally
culminate. if only to begin on a longer one.

Regards

Ravi

[A S MURTY]

Post by Naseer
Dear Alupers, aadaab.
In our Urdu poetry group there have been and still are people who
enjoy Urdu poetry and read it through the medium of Roman Urdu or
another script such as Devanagri. There are those who have a genuine
and earnest desire to learn to read it but have not been able to find
useful materials. There are also those who do know how to read Urdu
but are not totally comfortable in tackling the written word when it
comes to reading Urdu books where the print quality may leave a lot to
be desired for relative beginners.
Today I tried my hand at searching the net for any suitable resources
but unfortunately I was not able to find very much of use there.I
wonder if any of our learned  ALUPers are aware of any good learning
materials on or off the net. If so, please share your information for
the benefit of those who are keen to learn to read Urdu poetry and
prose.
Recently I came across videos on Youtube posted by a kind soul using
the pseudonym "Khamosh Tamashai" (Dr.Tariq Akbar) where one can see
top quality poems displayed on screen and listen to them sung by top
quality singers.(Sometimes the poetry is recited).The icing on the
cake is that janaab-i-Khamosh Tamashai's English translation also
appears at the bottom of the screen! tihre maze!!:) No doubt, these
videos would be most welcome additional material for people in the
last category of my first paragraph. One only needs to type in
"KhamoshTamashai" in Youtube and the search will display numerous
results.
Here are a couple to wet your appetite!
1) Inshaa Jii uTho
http://youtu.be/TcDJe6CpD8k
2) vuh jo ham meN tum meN qaraar thaa
http://youtu.be/7cKyIuCTwRw
apnii du'aaoN meN "Khamosh Tamashai" Sahib awr "baatuunii" Naseer ko
yaad rakhie gaa:)
Naseer
P.S
This is my second attempt at posting this post. I don't know where the
first one has gone to!!

Naseerbhai, I am happy that you devote so much material on several
topics and some of them, including Urdu Shayari interest me too. I do
not know to read and write Urdu, but with devnagari script it is fine.
I had some of these lovely collections, but had never noted down the
names of shayars. Can you identify the shayar and also post more of
their kalaams ? Or can you tell me where on the net I can get more
sheyrs of these fabulous shayars ? Here are some :

1) NIGAHEN MERI UNKI MIL GAYEE RAAT MEHFIL MEIN,
"YEH DUNIYA HAI" BAS ITNI SI BAAT FAILI DAASTAN HOKAR.

2) TUJHKO KYA BATAYEN GUZRI KIS TARAH FURKAT KI RAAT,
KAH PHIRE IK IK SITARE SE TERA AFSANA HUM.

(3) EK HALAT PAR NA REHNE PAAYEEN DIL KI HASRATEIN,
TUMNE JAB DEKHA, NAYE ANDAAZ SE DEKHA TUMNE.

(4) PEHLI NAZAR BHI AAPKI "UFF" KIS BALA KI THI,
HUM AAJ TAK HAIN CHOT WOH DIL PAR LIYE HUYE.

(5) MUHOBBAT IS TARAH MALOOM HOTI HAI DUNIYA KO,
KI YEH MALOOM HOTA HAI, NAHI MALOOM HOTI HAI.

(6) HAI YEH MEHROOMIYAAN, NAKAAMIYAAN, TANHAAIYAAN,
IK TERE HONE SE KYA KYA HAI DIL MEIN.

(7) HAAN 'ASAR' SACH HAI SAB VAADE HAIN UNKE JHOOTE,
KUCH AJAB LUTF HAI RUK RUK KE KASAM KHANE KI. (shayar - Asar
Gondvi)

I would like to acquire more of such shayari and of these poets.
Please try to help me.

A S MURTY

[Naseer]

Deat Friends, aadaab.

Interested parties may find C.M. Naim's Introductory Urdu (Volume 1)
pp 15-54 useful.

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/digbooks/dig_toc.html?BOOKID=PK1983.N2_1999_V1

Naseer

[Naseer]

Post by Naseer
Deat Friends, aadaab.
Interested parties may find C.M. Naim's Introductory Urdu (Volume 1)
pp 15-54 useful.
http://dsal.uchicago.edu/digbooks/dig_toc.html?BOOKID=PK1983.N2_1999_V1
Naseer

dostaan-i-giraamii, aadaab.

There has been a talk of nasta'liiq and nasKh systems of writing Urdu
in some recent threads. This morning I came across the following sites
which may be of use to those wishing to improve their skills in Urdu.

http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=Nastaliq
(Nastaliq Navees v2.0.1 )

http://www.alphadictionary.com/directory/Languages/Indo,045Iranian/Urdu/
(Dictionaries/Grammars/Newspapers etc)

Naseer